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Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

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Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#51

Post by DKnoll »

curun1r wrote: post #47
sircastor wrote: post #26

Infotainment system developer here, A number of people have mentioned preferring/wanting Android Auto/CarPlay in their infotainment systems, and that it would be preferable to many of the systems that exist in current vehicles. I have a couple of thoughts. The Infotainment system is one of the most user-facing components of the vehicle. It's something that can reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, and most OEMs…

I think you're missing the point of people saying that they want CarPlay/Android Auto. People don't want another system, they want another set of controls, screen, speakers and charging dock for their smartphone. They already have an intimate relationship with their phone. Phones are addictive. It's where people get their dopamine rushes from social media, sms and games. You can't compete with that. Even if someone i…

>Even if someone is driving many, many hours per day, their relationship with their car will never be as strong as it is with their phone, despite the fact that they've paid more than 20x for the car.

I have paid much less than 20x more for my car and I care about it significantly more than my phone. If I had to choose between the two it would easily be my car. I also enjoy operating my vehicle much more than my phone. I think most would agree, although maybe not in the niche audience of HN comments.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#52

Post by DKnoll »

ianai wrote: post #43
twblalock wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Infotainment system is one of the most user-facing components of the vehicle. It's something that can reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, and most OEMs are not eager to cede that space to Apple or Google. Google and (especially) Apple certainly aren't interested in mixing their branding with a manufacturers. It actually seems like most manufacturers are including CarPlay and Android Auto in new cars. In…

I have an ancient car. Do either offer customization to the manufacturer?

You can get aftermarket stereos with Android Auto and CarPlay. They start around ~400.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#53

Post by DKnoll »

sircastor wrote: post #27
mark212 wrote: post #22

They all suck. BMW, Ford, Honda, Infiniti are all ones I've had ample experience with over the past year and they're all horrible. I've gone back to headphones and it's glorious (I use maps very rarely, just audio content)

I absolutely love our 2017 Mini Infotainment system. It's not perfect by any means (It's BMWs), but I find that it meets all my needs, is very fast and responsive. Not sure where you are, but here it's illegal to drive with headphones.

Even if it's legal it's a terrible idea.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#54

Post by deepGem »

DKnoll wrote: post #51
curun1r wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of people saying that they want CarPlay/Android Auto. People don't want another system, they want another set of controls, screen, speakers and charging dock for their smartphone. They already have an intimate relationship with their phone. Phones are addictive. It's where people get their dopamine rushes from social media, sms and games. You can't compete with that. Even if someone i…

>Even if someone is driving many, many hours per day, their relationship with their car will never be as strong as it is with their phone, despite the fact that they've paid more than 20x for the car. I have paid much less than 20x more for my car and I care about it significantly more than my phone. If I had to choose between the two it would easily be my car. I also enjoy operating my vehicle much more than my phon…

I have similar affiliations with my car for which I paid far less than 10K. I can feel the horsepower in my car, but I can't feel the horsepower in my phone.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#55

Post by tombrossman »

rothbardrand wrote: post #7

I've been a loyal toyota buyer for over 30 years. But I will not buy another car, unless it has first class CarPlay support. (and it should support the android equivalent as well) Having to interact with the phone while driving is a safety problem and Apple (and presumably android too) delivered a great solution several years ago-- no excuse for not implementing it. Especially given that auto makers really suck at th…

Tangential, but if Pro Fit International make a 'vehicle specific mount' for your model I highly recommend them. They require partial disassembly of your dash trim, which a car stereo installer can do for you. They bolt very solidly to the frame behind your dash and provide a mounting plate angled facing you, which you attach your phone/GPS/whatever to.

I found the best way to attach a phone to the mount was to buy a phone 'holster' - the belt clip type. Break the clip part off and grid down the back so it's flat, then use a 3M adhesive pad to attach the phone holder to the mount. Then you can easily snap the phone into place and see the screen while driving. It's more work than a cheap vent-clip type, but absolutely worth it.

No affiliation with the company, I just think they have the best product and I found them very helpful.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#56

Post by icebraining »

b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Donald Norman, author of The Design of Everyday Things, has an article about that (not touchscreens, but mouse-like device that sounds even worse): http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/interaction_design_f.html

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#57

Post by 4ad »

interfixus wrote: post #9

Can someone explain to me, honestly, why I would want an 'entertainmaint' system built into my car? I do long commutes, I drive a lot, I am an occasional truck driver, I have crossed Australia east to west more than once - and I still don't get it. My car is the one place in the world where I stand a decent chance of escaping the all-pervading goddamn film and music industry.

I don't get it either. I'm a huge music lover, I have other 4000 albums, but I am an active listener only. I only listen to music when I listen to music, not while doing something else. In a car, music is annoying, not to mention the poor experience from the car noise.

I don't use active GPSes, although I do use electronic maps for plotting my route beforehand. I prefer to know where I am going, and I hate the GPSs that try to talk to my with the force of a thousand suns.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#58

Post by agumonkey »

b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

It's the same in smartphones but it's less critical. New tech teams forgot the 50 years of stupid tactile interfaces and how much people enjoy and get efficient with touch.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#59

Post by jcelerier »

ausjke wrote: post #13

Checked the software stack, it's basically: Yocto(OS framework) + Tizen(application framework) + Genivi(infotainment). Yocto is totally over-engineered and only RTOS vendors really enjoy it as they can sell services on top of that, it's a nightmare for small players, they should just use Buildroot the alternative to save money and time. Tizen has never reached what it wanted to be, partially because of Android. Geniv…

I don't think that Tizen is used as an application framework.

In the HMI architecture document, they mention Qt, HTML5 and JavaFX for apps:

https://wiki.automotivelinux.org/_media/eg-ui-graphics/17080...

the WindowManager spec seems to assume Qt as default: https://wiki.automotivelinux.org/_media/agl-hmi-fw_windowman...

and most of the UI demos seems to use it too : https://gerrit.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/admin/projects/A...

I could not find apps built with Tizen's native toolkit (EFL).

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#60

Post by tzs »

b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Worse, I believe some cars are now doing this with almost all of the controls, not just the entertainment system controls.

Controls I want to operate without looking at them: fan, temperature, air routing, defrost, windshield wipers, high beams, turn signals.

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