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Facebook’s war on free will

theguardian.com

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Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#191

Post by gaius »

root_axis wrote: post #163
lurker456 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

facebook is as much just a website as the catholic church is just some buildings with a book. there is a lot behind it.

I suppose that makes Zuckerberg god in your analogy. This is a terrible comparison. A decade old tech company is not at all comparable to one of the oldest and most powerful and influential institutions in history.

I suppose that makes Zuckerberg god in your analogy.

Zuckerberg with the strip of tape over his own laptop's camera is like the Pope, living in a palace wearing a gold hat while claiming to be all about the poor.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#192

Post by crpatino »

ameister14 wrote: post #11

This was written so disrespectfully and dismissively of programmers, hackers and engineers that I have a hard time reading it, despite my extreme distaste for Facebook. >In the labs of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) during the 60s and 70s, they broke any rule that interfered with building the stuff of early computing, such marvels as the first video games and word processors. Also, Calling a 33 year…

> This was written so disrespectfully and dismissively of programmers, hackers and engineers that I have a hard time reading

I did not read anything there that was openly hostile to us. Critic of unintended consequences, yes; but that reflects more on our collective disregard for such than on then author's biases.

If you had a hard time reading through it, that reflects positivelly on your character: It means you are not a self-serving cynic yet. The question is how to channel that emotional energy into making our profession one that serves the public as it claims to be, instead of preying on the public as more often than not we end up being.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#193

Post by gaius »

emilburzo wrote: post #77
jknz wrote: post #30

Getting off facebook will not suit everyone, mostly because a lot of users will use messenger or need facebook to beventa in the loop of some social events. There is way to empty one's Facebook feed and remove all notifications that are not related to messenger. The solution is to unfollow everyone, until the facebook feed displays "no more posts to show". One can then enjoy the messaging features of facebook without…

Or just install 'Kill news feed' -> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kill-news-feed/hjo... (no affiliation)

Replacing Facebook with a Google product isn't the bargain you think it is.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#194

Post by funkymike »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #83
KGIII wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to defend Facebook, but I'm not sure about their data having no value for the users. One such example would be that they've connected people who were otherwise unknowing of each other. People have found long lost relatives due to the big data that Facebook has. I'd say that's value.

And I've seen friendships and families destroyed by arguments on FaceBook. We've also seen how much of it is truly fake, curated by foreign companies and political groups to push agendas.

How many of those relationships only survived before due to lies? They could simply be lies of omission, never really saying to family and friends that their opinions are bonkers. In some sense this is at least more honest. Whether that is better overall could be argued either way I think.

In some sense those relationships were fake. How can you call someone a friend if you aren't willing to have a discussion, even argument, with them and respect them afterwards?

Personally I don't discuss politics or religion with most of my family. I know that my views are in strong opposition to theirs. Things may be more harmonious this way, but it does mean that no one challenges anyone's ideas.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#195

Post by emilburzo »

gaius wrote: post #193
emilburzo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just install 'Kill news feed' -> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kill-news-feed/hjo... (no affiliation)

Replacing Facebook with a Google product isn't the bargain you think it is.

What do you mean?

It's a chrome extension that hides the news feed part of facebook, leaving the chat/group/event stuff without the endless scrolling.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#196

Post by ryandrake »

Chardok wrote: post #181
root_axis wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not unique to Facebook; Amazon, Google, Equifax and many other businesses build a profile on you regardless of whether you want them to or not.

Right, just in the same sense that Google and Equifax are not just websites , Facebook is not something you can entirely ignore without consequence.

Sure, but so what? How can some "profile" Facebook has on me affect my life in any way? I'm not going to be denied a loan because Facebook might know who some of my friends are. I've been ignoring Facebook without consequence for a decade.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#197

Post by emilburzo »

adamrezich wrote: post #190
emilburzo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just install 'Kill news feed' -> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kill-news-feed/hjo... (no affiliation)

or just use messenger.com. I haven't checked my Facebook wall in forever, but I use messenger almost daily to communicate with friends and family.

Sure, but then you lose the group/event functionality (which is great, if you don't need it)

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#198

Post by ryandrake »

root_axis wrote: post #176
ryandrake wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I care about that if I don't use the product? How would anything that Facebook does affect someone who does not use it?

Well, someone could certainly take your photo and post it on Facebook without your knowledge and that could lead to serious consequences, however, one's photo could just as easily end up on reddit, imgur, HN or any other internet community. Incidentally, the photo posted on Facebook would at least not be indexed by google.

What specific serious consequences could it lead to? Maybe Facebook has my photo through a friend, maybe it doesn't. I have no idea and have never needed to care.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#199

Post by ams6110 »

mrec wrote: post #144
katzgrau wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB's tentacles are so deeply embedded in everything that I'm not sure a classic tech death from a disruptor is possible. Only a long and slow decline over a period of 5, maybe even 10 years.

If Zuck does end up making a Presidential run, I think that'd have a very good chance of triggering a sizeable decline in its US userbase.

I'd be stunned if he did. The man has the personality of a lizard. No way is he an appealing candidate for the general public.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#200

Post by Noos »

athenot wrote: post #65

> The problem is that when we outsource thinking to machines, we are really outsourcing thinking to the organisations that run the machines. This is the money quote of this article, and it's been on my mind quite a bit as of late. More than ever, we live in a world where there are many forces ready to take full advantage of our laziness. It takes a bit of introspection to really understand the tradeoffs that are appr…

I don't think people outsource their thinking to machines.

I think the algorithms just work well at finding similar things to what people choose to consume or like. They aren't perfect, but there's this need to explain things by this great conspiracy of fake news and invisible influencers in a paranoid style.

I think this has gained traction due to a crisis of the knowledge class that happened due to the rise of populism via trump and brexit. They can't understand that those sentiments were chosen because people agreed with them; they had to have been influenced and their free will taken by "algorithms." This to me is like saying my free will is taken by the suggestions Amazon shows me on their site, or that my taste in movies is shaped by Netflix recommendations.

This gets annoying because it's so obviously a reaction in that particular style of contradicted elites. We see it in many forms, like the handwaving over internet comments and "civility." The knowledge elite hates to have its power or dominion challenged, and will try to explain the doing so via these systemic solutions.

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