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Facebook’s war on free will

theguardian.com

71–80 of 284 posts

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#71
post #28

It's the Internet that enables communication. Families and friends would be able to communicate once the Internet became possible whether Facebook exists or not. People would be able to use and get value from the Internet whether Google exists or not. These companies add value but they are not the Internet. If they didn't exist the Internet will continue being useful. What they have been able to do is inject themselv…

I hate to defend Facebook, but I'm not sure about their data having no value for the users. One such example would be that they've connected people who were otherwise unknowing of each other. People have found long lost relatives due to the big data that Facebook has. I'd say that's value.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#72
post #63

I feel like once someone figures out what the next big thing in social media is, facebook will go the way of myspace. Here's the next big thing: a federated, open source network that allows users to sell their own data.

Those sorts of things only appeal to people who know what they mean, which is a ver very small part of facebook. Does my mother or grandmother care about a social network being federated or open source? No , not even close. Only technical people care about this stuff and it adds no value for the average user.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#73
post #65

> The problem is that when we outsource thinking to machines, we are really outsourcing thinking to the organisations that run the machines. This is the money quote of this article, and it's been on my mind quite a bit as of late. More than ever, we live in a world where there are many forces ready to take full advantage of our laziness. It takes a bit of introspection to really understand the tradeoffs that are appr…

Possibly tangential, but that's yet another reason we need to fight for control of our computers, instead of outsourcing everything to commercial vendors in the cloud, and making everything so dumb that everyone can "master" it within 5 seconds of seeing it. Things don't have to be this way, computers can be used to augment human thinking.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#74
Has anyone come up with a way of tracking what gets shared where? Perhaps with a hidden pixel or some other mechanism to track requests? Or is that impossible because Facebook is a walled garden?

I'm thinking that since there is no check against Facebook's sharing algorithm going haywire (in effect censoring certain things for monetary gain) that that creates an incentive to not be fair. The public nature of the internet used to be our proof of fairness, for example with Twitter or YouTube.

It occurred to me that the same 3 people that like my posts are probably the only ones seeing them, since I'm one of the only ones who likes theirs back. We're collectively hellbanned, and I can't think of a stronger incentive to quit using Facebook.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#75
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this will be seen as when people say "Just stop using drugs" to drug addicts. Facebook for those who use it can have immense real or imaginary utility; it's not as simple as telling someone not to use it, unless they are a very casual user and do not rely on it for things like organising group events.

Stopping the use of Facebook and transitioning to another method of organizing group events does not cause physical illness or death.

Neither does the cessation of many addictive drugs, notably nicotine.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#76

This was written so disrespectfully and dismissively of programmers, hackers and engineers that I have a hard time reading it, despite my extreme distaste for Facebook. >In the labs of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) during the 60s and 70s, they broke any rule that interfered with building the stuff of early computing, such marvels as the first video games and word processors. Also, Calling a 33 year…

> This was written so disrespectfully and dismissively of programmers, hackers and engineers that I have a hard time reading it, despite my extreme distaste for Facebook.

It's the Guardian, that's pretty much to be expected.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#77
post #30

Getting off facebook will not suit everyone, mostly because a lot of users will use messenger or need facebook to beventa in the loop of some social events. There is way to empty one's Facebook feed and remove all notifications that are not related to messenger. The solution is to unfollow everyone, until the facebook feed displays "no more posts to show". One can then enjoy the messaging features of facebook without…

Or just install 'Kill news feed' -> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kill-news-feed/hjo...

(no affiliation)

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#78
post #32
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often get invited to events through Facebook. Without Facebook, I would miss out on a lot of events. For this reason I'm basically stuck with Facebook, but I've unfollowed most of my friends, so this reduces the burden to some extent.

Are we talking about friends or acquaintances? Because if ones friends forget to invite them to events because they are not on FB, then it’s time to find new friends.

While I tend to agree, it's a little like telling someone to just "find a better job"; it's not always so easy. Maybe some people are unfortunate enough to not have real friends, and shallow Facebook connections are all they have.

Even though the shallow connections take up time that could be spent forging more meaningful connections with those around them, not everyone is self-confident enough to go cold-turkey.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#79
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>In the labs of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) during the 60s and 70s, they broke any rule that interfered with building the stuff of early computing, such marvels as the first video games and word processors. Surely this is part of tech's own, positive, legend of itself? Is it "disrespectful" when it's part of HAKMEM or the Jargon file? Isn't this where all the "disruption" ideology comes from?

In context, it doesn't appear that he actually believes the first video games, for example, to be a marvel - he's deliberately describing the programmers at MIT in a way to make them seem childish and naive. This makes his point that Zuckerberg is both childish and exploitative an easier one to support.

Immediately preceding sentence: "The heroes of his adolescence were the original hackers. These weren’t malevolent data thieves or cyberterrorists. Zuckerberg’s hacker heroes were disrespectful of authority. They were technically virtuosic, infinitely resourceful nerd cowboys, unbound by conventional thinking."

I think you're reading a sarcasm into it that I'm not seeing?

> "Plenty of companies have similarly appropriated hacker culture – hackers are the ur-disrupters – but none have gone as far as Facebook."

I think it's actually painting Zuckerberg as a "wannabe" and in some way not a real hacker?

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#80
> By the time Zuckerberg began extolling the virtues of hacking, he had stripped the name of most of its original meaning and distilled it into a managerial philosophy that contains barely a hint of rebelliousness. Hackers, he told one interviewer, were “just this group of computer scientists who were trying to quickly prototype and see what was possible."

No, Zuckerberg did not somehow give the word "hacking" new meaning - those meanings have been around for a long time.

> Facebook would never put it this way, but algorithms are meant to erode free will, to relieve humans of the burden of choosing, to nudge them in the right direction.

Again, no. The whole article is full of grandiose statements like this that are either flat-out wrong or distorted to fit the author's narrative. Maybe if "algorithms" were replaced with "their algorithms", this argument (which seems to be the thesis) would be slightly more credible. The problems described in the article are not products of algorithms or the "engineering mindset". Those things are just manifestations of the real problem: Facebook's current strategic mission.

I agree with a lot of what the article is saying, but unfortunately it comes across as blaming the use of technology and engineering. Like civil laws, those things can be helpful or detrimental to people (as most tools can), and sometimes they have unintended consequences. Ultimately, the responsibility still lies 100% with the organization creating those algorithms, not in the use of algorithms per se.

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