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Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#111

Post by _0w8t »

micheljones wrote: post #109
_0w8t wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[1] gives direct evidence that meat from grass-feed cows comes with higher load of endotoxins than wild game. It will be interesting to know if this is a consequence of modern breading/farming or something related to cow domestication. [1] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20377925

Thank you for that link. The summary doesn't mention 'grass-fed', only 'wagyu'; wagyu is intensively grain-fed in the last year of their life or so. To quote from a quickly-googled article: "What many people overlook is that farmers make Wagyu as fatty as possible by feeding their cows huge amounts of grain for the last 300-500 days of their lives. Some farmers even add wine and beer to further increase fat content.…

My bad, I was under impression that wagyu cows were supposed to be grass-feed most of the time.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#112

Post by Balgair »

TuringNYC wrote: post #68

Please allow me go offtopic and ramble for a bit. This article feels like a punch in the gut. So before my tech career, I did a 1.5yr Fellowship at a renowned research lab -- The Rockefeller University. Our entire programme of research was around the possible causes of multiple sclerosis. One of the reasons I decided to pursue Computer Science rather than clinical research was the slow discovery cycle in clinical res…

Its only gotten worse in the last 2 decades. There are a myriad of articles that pop up on HN about how bad bio had gotten. No one can replicate anything anyone else is doing and it seems like ~45% of published research these days is p-hacking to graduate students. It used to be 'publish or perish' but now its 'funding or famine'. Why not fudge the results, who is ever going to check, let alone prove p-hacking? The researchers have mortgages, college-funds, and college debt too. Nature came out and said that a P of 0.005 (not .05) is the way to fix it. Like, guys, the culture is rotten from the core on up, you need to fix that, not add a 0. It makes sense, the funding is (long-term) drying up relative to the number of researchers, there is less money to go around, so we get to see who is swimming naked.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#113

Post by Mz »

rocqua wrote: post #94
Mz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making such claims lightly is (excuse my language) being a fucking asshole. (I know, harsh words. But I needed to get this off my chest) Taking this out on someone with carefully worded suggestions that only advocate testing is also "being a fucking asshole." Because very frequently the people putting out such info are giving testimony from firsthand experience because they know firsthand what a fucking nightmare it…

I agree that I might be a fucking asshole here, but those sharing anecdotal 'it helped for me' stories aren't helping. They are the exception, their advice still isn't based on verified science and therefor unlikely to work someone else.

They are commenting on a public forum. If you think they are full of shit and have no useful information, you are free to ignore it. The fact that it is anecdotal testimony in no way justifies being verbally abusive.

Your first paragraph inquires as to whether or not they can substantiate their claim. The next four are gratuitous ugliness. You could have stopped at the end of your first paragraph. They could have replied to that. People could judge for themselves if it merited further investigation or not.

You having big feels on the topic is not justification for this kind of behavior. They also likely have very big feels about it too and they aren't intentionally shitting on anyone.

People bitch all the time about the lack of a cure or the lack of real alternatives. Then, anytime someone has a story of success with an alternative approach, they get shit all over, dismissed as "that's just anecdotal," called crazy and worse, plus outright told they have no right to participate in the conversation because they can't prove their claims.

Maybe if the world were not so full of asshole behavior, we could more rapidly find new solutions by listening to the folks who were told it was hopeless who did not politely agree to suffer and die so that other people could feel like they are smart or some shit.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#114

Post by blacksmith_tb »

shanev wrote: post #39
colordrops wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small amounts of animal protein and lots of raw greens and vegetables, tubers and roots. Everything else is extra. Be careful though about making any specific recommendations here or else someone with a different idea will attack you for not backing it up with scientific data. Because you shouldn't try to figure out what to eat until you get a PhD.

What’s the value in raw vs cooked vegetables? I thought cooking makes their nutrients more bio-available. Do you really eat tubers raw? I can't imagine eating a potato raw. Our ancestors even always cooked them.

Raw-diet adherents might not think in these terms, but I would suggest that many of the health benefits stem from the much poorer absorption of macronutrients from raw food. Which allows you to eat quite a lot (leaving you sated), but doesn't actually provide a lot of calories (though potentially lots of other nutrients, like folate, vitamins, minerals etc., though some are easier to extract from cooked food also) Or you could eat less cooked food...

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#115

Post by alonmower »

avip wrote: post #88
jryan49 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

I think if you find a very healthy fellow human being, and eat him, you'll be in the sweet spot.

Assuming they don't contain any prions

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#116

Post by undersuit »

astura wrote: post #110
lrem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently watched a ton of Ted talks on the subject (thank you, autoplay), so you can call me a proper internet know-it-all. The consensus seems to be: nobody knows, but the SAD certainly is not the right answer. As diverse as you can get and as little processed as you stand seem to be popular ideas too. Dropping sugar and milk seem commonly recommended, but they can pry my ice-cream from my cold, dead fingers.

What exactly does "processed" mean though? Cooking is a form of processing so do I have to go raw? Pressing oils out of nuts is processing so do I give up oils and only eat nuts? I thought fermented foods showed some potential health benefits but I'd argue that fermentation falls under "highly processed." "Processed" is a vague word that means very little.

Does it come in plastic wrapping and has a self life greater than 6 months? Probably processed.

Sure that includes cheese, preserved meats, honey, grains, and many liquids, but you can also find those held in paper, wax, wood, and glass containers. Hamburger Helper is processed and it always comes in a plastic bag.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#117

Post by [deleted] »

astura wrote: post #110
lrem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently watched a ton of Ted talks on the subject (thank you, autoplay), so you can call me a proper internet know-it-all. The consensus seems to be: nobody knows, but the SAD certainly is not the right answer. As diverse as you can get and as little processed as you stand seem to be popular ideas too. Dropping sugar and milk seem commonly recommended, but they can pry my ice-cream from my cold, dead fingers.

What exactly does "processed" mean though? Cooking is a form of processing so do I have to go raw? Pressing oils out of nuts is processing so do I give up oils and only eat nuts? I thought fermented foods showed some potential health benefits but I'd argue that fermentation falls under "highly processed." "Processed" is a vague word that means very little.

[deleted]

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#118

Post by jpster »

Nomentatus wrote: post #58
jpster wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kimchi, sauerkraut and yogurt, among other things. https://www.rd.com/health/wellness/probiotic-foods-gut-bacte...

Careful - most of what you buy as "Kimchi", even from Korea, and most "sauerkraut"; is probiotic in no way whatsoever. That's because it isn't fermented as it should be, they've just poured in vinegar to make pickled vegetable matter. That won't help you at all.

Thanks for the heads-up. Would avoiding kimchi products that have vinegar listed as an ingredient be a good strategy? Or is some amount of vinegar also used in authentic kimchi?

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#119

Post by ipunchghosts »

shanev wrote: post #38
thomas11 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a recommendation for a soil-based probiotic? I've been looking recently and found them somewhat hard to research among all the lacto ones.

My research led me to Prescript-Assist: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0049NRWHS . Here's a study validating it for IBS patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16117982 . I also recommend a gut bacteria test like uBiome to see how it alters your composition. Do a before test, then another one after a month or two of use.

I would recommend against spending your money doing a uBiome tests. The research is showing that where you sample in the stool highly affects the results.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#120

Post by micheljones »

_0w8t wrote: post #111
micheljones wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for that link. The summary doesn't mention 'grass-fed', only 'wagyu'; wagyu is intensively grain-fed in the last year of their life or so. To quote from a quickly-googled article: "What many people overlook is that farmers make Wagyu as fatty as possible by feeding their cows huge amounts of grain for the last 300-500 days of their lives. Some farmers even add wine and beer to further increase fat content.…

My bad, I was under impression that wagyu cows were supposed to be grass-feed most of the time.

No bad, it's a pleasure to discuss these things with someone who is willing to research and to admit their mistakes.

Much better than the usual crowd I get in these kind of discussions, the 'sensitive vegan' type who pushes false statistics to try to hide being emotionally invested behind the authority of science (two of their favorite falsehoods are to push all people who consume meat into the same group for comparison vs vegans - bad science, because majority of omnivores have very bad diets incomparable to my efforts at keeping on keto, and arguing that 'cows emit methane, so we need to eat less meat', never 'cows emit methane, so let's eat other meat more'). And then when I display patience and deconstruct their arguments, the mask of reason falls off and they just start calling me Hitler, murderer etc. lol.

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