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Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

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Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#101

Post by moozilla »

spaceseaman wrote: post #49
brndnmtthws wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking coffee is unhealthy? You sure about that? > Studies have shown that coffee may have health benefits, including protecting against Parkinson's disease, type 2 diabetes and liver disease, including liver cancer. Coffee also appears to improve cognitive function and decrease the risk of depression. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-he...

The high caffeine intake is still quite bad for your heart. And it's bad for your teeth. Just googling shows that the scientific results have been quite mixed. By that I mean that scientists have found some positive correlations, and some negative ones. From my layman's perspective, I would think a doctor would say there isn't a consensus on whether coffee is holistically healthy. In other words, it's good for some t…

What scientific results are you googling exactly? Everything I can find shows a strong consensus that coffee has positive effects across the board. This seems like a good summary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/upshot/more-consensus-on-...

Highlight from that article:

>There have been two meta-analyses published within the last year or so. The first reviewed 20 studies, including almost a million people, and the second included 17 studies containing more than a million people. Both found that drinking coffee was associated with a significantly reduced chance of death. I can’t think of any other product that has this much positive epidemiologic evidence going for it.

I don't understand how you can claim coffee is bad for your heart in good faith if you have read _any_ of the research... for example, this meta-analysis of 36 studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24201300

> A nonlinear association between coffee consumption and CVD risk was observed in this meta-analysis. Moderate coffee consumption was inversely significantly associated with CVD risk, with the lowest CVD risk at 3 to 5 cups per day, and heavy coffee consumption was not associated with elevated CVD risk.

I think any doctor worth their salt would tell you that there is a strong scientific consensus that drinking coffee is not only completely safe, but it has preventative effects towards cancer, cardiovascular disease, Parkinson's, and Type-2 diabetes.

Here's a bonus review of 112 meta-analyses: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-nutr-07...

> Of the 59 unique outcomes examined in the selected 112 meta-analyses of observational studies, coffee was associated with a probable decreased risk of breast, colorectal, colon, endometrial, and prostate cancers; cardiovascular disease and mortality; Parkinson's disease; and type-2 diabetes.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#102

Post by lagadu »

mc32 wrote: post #56
stickfigure wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot avoid the nasty social effects of drug prohibition (crime, violence, contamination, etc) without making distribution legal. If you want to live in a world without homeless junkies breaking into your car, or a world without running gun battles in the street, or a world without your wayward kids accidentally ODing on their next batch, you need drugs like cocaine and heroin to be sold openly and affordably at…

I don't see that borne out by the opioid crisis. Many believe it was lax prescription that allowed opioids to become preferred and prevalent narcotics to abuse. If they are not available it does not matter how many cars or houses you brake into, it does no good if no one is selling. So you say, well in that case someone will make them dirty and available for a price. Punish the illegal seller and prosecute all suppli…

> if no one is selling.

That's not a realistic scenario though.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#103

Post by subroutine »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #93
blauditore wrote: post #81

Honest question: How would decriminalization of drugs work in practice? Would it be legal to e.g. import and sell cristal meth in stores? What about cheap self-made alcohol that might contain dangerous stuff like methanol; where do you draw the line?

Decriminalization ≠ legalization; the idea here is decriminalizing usage and personal possession, which in no way entails legalizing production, cultivation or commercialization. The point is to enable addicts to seek treatment without fear of legal trouble.

I would argue, somewhat pedantically, that decriminalization = legalization. Drug use can either be legal or illegal. Drug possession can be either legal or illegal. Same for drug, manufacture, and drug distribution.

In that order: use, possession, manufacture, distribution

I think you will get a reduction in the number of people who would agree with having no restrictions. For instance, drug use is probably ok, but not while driving a vehicle, or playing a competitive sport. Drug possession is probably fine, but not more than X amount. Drug manufacture might be fine, if you are just growing/making for yourself. Drug distribution is probably not ok unless you have a license and follow state/federal guidelines.

I think where the law breaks down is under: 'possession'

If it's legal to possess say, 200 pills of oxy at any time, no Rx, no questions asked, I don't see how that isn't going to result in increased distribution.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#104

Post by lagadu »

justonepost wrote: post #46
fsloth wrote: post #5

Finally. I hope this will signal a turning point on this insane approach to national health in all countries. Drugs are a health problem, not a criminal problem. Lone experts have been fired in western countries when they have expressed this common sense sentiments alone [0]. I hope this groups fares better. Nixon started the war on drugs anyway as a mean to attack left and black activists [1]. Any previous legislati…

Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.

The most notorious large-scale, well studied example of complete decriminalization, Portugal, shows the opposite to be true[0].

[0] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decr...

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#105

Post by firmgently »

blubb-fish wrote: post #82

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they di…

That may be part of it but (at least here in the UK) the bigger factor is votes. The increasingly-shrinking (the most recent general election being an exception) voter demographic has a large overlap with the hysterical "lock 'em all up" authoritarian demographic. Legalisation of drugs is political suicide. When the UK gov's drugs advisor advised that drugs should be legal they sacked him.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#106

Post by dispo001 »

Drugs cause psychopathic behavior in those who didn't take them.

It is all because of a self-enslavement formula where it is magically expected to have every angle of everyones life managed by others.

I say we force them to smoke the weed and calm them the fuck down. It's just better for them.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#107

Post by subroutine »

leksak wrote: post #35

> decriminalization of all nonviolent drug use and possession What is meant by nonviolent drug use?

They just want to make it clear to bullies and torturers that violence shall remain illegal whether or not drug use is decriminalized. Honestly, it seems like a spin word.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#108

Post by enord »

alexasmyths wrote: post #99
joesb wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barrier to exit matters as well. When you buy it from dangerous people, you have to be in contact with dangerous people. It gives dangerous people leverage against you and people who care about you.

There is no 'danger' from 'not buying stuff from your dealer' anymore.

I see you've never dealt with a dealer before.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#109

Post by ssijak »

moozilla wrote: post #101
spaceseaman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high caffeine intake is still quite bad for your heart. And it's bad for your teeth. Just googling shows that the scientific results have been quite mixed. By that I mean that scientists have found some positive correlations, and some negative ones. From my layman's perspective, I would think a doctor would say there isn't a consensus on whether coffee is holistically healthy. In other words, it's good for some t…

What scientific results are you googling exactly? Everything I can find shows a strong consensus that coffee has positive effects across the board. This seems like a good summary: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/upshot/more-consensus-on-... Highlight from that article: >There have been two meta-analyses published within the last year or so. The first reviewed 20 studies, including almost a million people, and the…

Well, at least anecdotally regular caffeine (several cups per day) intake messes up your energy level, sleep patterns, etc. And if you mess with your adrenal glands, there could be subtle and long-lasting effects on your energy and mood.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#110

Post by lqdc13 »

lagadu wrote: post #104
justonepost wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.

The most notorious large-scale, well studied example of complete decriminalization, Portugal, shows the opposite to be true[0]. [0] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decr...

That's not true. Usage increased[0,1].

- Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110725093536/http://www.idt.pt...

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