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Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#31

Post by stevenwoo »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #25

Do we actually need gut bacteria? Do they serve other purposes that breaking down fibers?

I would presume we need them because every healthy human being has them after one to two years of age.

We also know that antibiotics that kill gut flora lead to health/digestion issues until the gut flora is replenished.

It doesn't take nearly as many why questions to get to a "we don't know" answer with biology versus physics. There's lots of stuff about biology we can observe but do not understand the why as well as we understand something like the physics behind a microprocessor.

There are even theories that gut bacteria can drive human behavior at some level. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/06/gut-bacte...

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#32

Post by ams6110 »

lrem wrote: post #19
jryan49 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

I've recently watched a ton of Ted talks on the subject (thank you, autoplay), so you can call me a proper internet know-it-all. The consensus seems to be: nobody knows, but the SAD certainly is not the right answer. As diverse as you can get and as little processed as you stand seem to be popular ideas too. Dropping sugar and milk seem commonly recommended, but they can pry my ice-cream from my cold, dead fingers.

SAD? Standard American Diet?

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#33

Post by kristallizer1 »

ams6110 wrote: post #32
lrem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently watched a ton of Ted talks on the subject (thank you, autoplay), so you can call me a proper internet know-it-all. The consensus seems to be: nobody knows, but the SAD certainly is not the right answer. As diverse as you can get and as little processed as you stand seem to be popular ideas too. Dropping sugar and milk seem commonly recommended, but they can pry my ice-cream from my cold, dead fingers.

SAD? Standard American Diet?

Yes.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#34

Post by thomas11 »

shanev wrote: post #30
Havoc wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I managed to get my eczema under control by learning about the relationship between gut, food, inflammation, and auto-immunity. And what did you do? Everyone seems to agree that dietary changes are the answer. What exact seems to vary.

What to do varies because human bodies, environment, and gut bacteria composition varies. It's more than diet. Inflammation due to lack of sleep, stress, or smoking is also a huge factor. That said, the biggest factor for me was eliminating dairy. I used to drink more than a gallon of milk a week. I saw results after about two weeks of eliminating dairy. My dermatologist was shocked. She refused to believe there's an…

Do you have a recommendation for a soil-based probiotic? I've been looking recently and found them somewhat hard to research among all the lacto ones.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#35

Post by magic_beans »

rocqua wrote: post #8
alfon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might also want to have her CSF independently tested for nematode worms. (what I mean by this is to put it under a microscope). it surely won't hurt, as some pathologists (although not published yet in the medical literature AFAIK) are finding them in all the samples they have tested for. More information: https://youtu.be/aTPU87CKQLQ?t=6m30s If this proves to be the case for your aunt, the good news is that anti…

I looked into both of those researchers. I could find nothing published by them with regards to MS. They do both seem to have published on Lyme disease. Can you provide any published research to back those youtube videos? Maybe I'm wrong here, but this feels like giving medical advice based on very little hard evidence. Considering I have a loved one with MS, I find such advice sickening. You see this with many termi…

I also have a loved one with MS. It's hard to deal with. But enjoy the good days with them, and give them as much love as you can on the bad days

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#36

Post by travmatt »

jryan49 wrote: post #12
Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

In addition to what everyone else is recommending: fermented vegetables like pickles or sauerkraut, especially organic and homemade such that you can see the culture in the jar as well.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#37

Post by Gatsky »

It is very easy to find correlations between phenotypic traits (getting MS, developing cancer, autism etc) and "your favourite biological variable". See John Ioannidis talking about microRNA studies for example. Part of the reason for this is that high throughput data like gene expression measures, gene methylation or microbiome sequencing gives you p Not to downplay this data, but caution is required not to over interpret the results, and avoid making the sane mistakes over and over again.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#38

Post by shanev »

thomas11 wrote: post #34
shanev wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What to do varies because human bodies, environment, and gut bacteria composition varies. It's more than diet. Inflammation due to lack of sleep, stress, or smoking is also a huge factor. That said, the biggest factor for me was eliminating dairy. I used to drink more than a gallon of milk a week. I saw results after about two weeks of eliminating dairy. My dermatologist was shocked. She refused to believe there's an…

Do you have a recommendation for a soil-based probiotic? I've been looking recently and found them somewhat hard to research among all the lacto ones.

My research led me to Prescript-Assist: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0049NRWHS. Here's a study validating it for IBS patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16117982.

I also recommend a gut bacteria test like uBiome to see how it alters your composition. Do a before test, then another one after a month or two of use.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#39

Post by shanev »

colordrops wrote: post #24
lrem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently watched a ton of Ted talks on the subject (thank you, autoplay), so you can call me a proper internet know-it-all. The consensus seems to be: nobody knows, but the SAD certainly is not the right answer. As diverse as you can get and as little processed as you stand seem to be popular ideas too. Dropping sugar and milk seem commonly recommended, but they can pry my ice-cream from my cold, dead fingers.

Small amounts of animal protein and lots of raw greens and vegetables, tubers and roots. Everything else is extra. Be careful though about making any specific recommendations here or else someone with a different idea will attack you for not backing it up with scientific data. Because you shouldn't try to figure out what to eat until you get a PhD.

What’s the value in raw vs cooked vegetables? I thought cooking makes their nutrients more bio-available. Do you really eat tubers raw? I can't imagine eating a potato raw. Our ancestors even always cooked them.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#40

Post by _of »

Gatsky wrote: post #37

It is very easy to find correlations between phenotypic traits (getting MS, developing cancer, autism etc) and "your favourite biological variable". See John Ioannidis talking about microRNA studies for example. Part of the reason for this is that high throughput data like gene expression measures, gene methylation or microbiome sequencing gives you p Not to downplay this data, but caution is required not to over int…

Researchers in genomics are aware of this and that is why researchers are expected to correct their p-values for multiple testing, for example using q-values.
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