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Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#11

Post by shanev »

Havoc wrote: post #5

Much of the auto-immune related diseases seem to be vaguely arriving at a similar conclusion lately.

Auto-immune diseases and their link to gut bacteria is not new. The relationship between MS and gut bacteria alone goes back to at least 2006 [1].

To learn more about auto-immune diseases and gut bacteria, I highly recommend the book An Epidemic of Absence [2]. It's an impressively well researched book that doesn't skimp on the science.

I managed to get my eczema under control by learning about the relationship between gut, food, inflammation, and auto-immunity.

[1]: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=multiple+sclerosis+gut+...

[2]: https://www.amazon.com/Epidemic-Absence-Understanding-Allerg...

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#12

Post by jryan49 »

Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#13

Post by jaggederest »

rocqua wrote: post #8
alfon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might also want to have her CSF independently tested for nematode worms. (what I mean by this is to put it under a microscope). it surely won't hurt, as some pathologists (although not published yet in the medical literature AFAIK) are finding them in all the samples they have tested for. More information: https://youtu.be/aTPU87CKQLQ?t=6m30s If this proves to be the case for your aunt, the good news is that anti…

I looked into both of those researchers. I could find nothing published by them with regards to MS. They do both seem to have published on Lyme disease. Can you provide any published research to back those youtube videos? Maybe I'm wrong here, but this feels like giving medical advice based on very little hard evidence. Considering I have a loved one with MS, I find such advice sickening. You see this with many termi…

I think there's an imprecision problem here with the language. What people might mean by "could help" ranges from "A miracle cure overnight" to "3% improvement in perceived severity of one symptom"

I hope that people will avoid the former and view the latter in context - i.e. a genuine wish to relieve their suffering for a while, rather than a flat denial of the reality of the disease. I don't think either is especially appropriate, but the latter is misguided rather than malicious.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#14

Post by rednerrus »

jryan49 wrote: post #12
Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

Get more fiber in your diet. Eat more vegetables. Eat less sugar and processed foods.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#15

Post by jpster »

jryan49 wrote: post #12
Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

Kimchi, sauerkraut and yogurt, among other things. https://www.rd.com/health/wellness/probiotic-foods-gut-bacte...

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#16

Post by Mz »

jryan49 wrote: post #12
Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

That depends on a) what health issues you have and b) how you currently eat (and c) probably other factors, like genetics and other unknown unknowns).

I do have a food blog if you want to follow my eating journey for some reason.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#17

Post by nso »

nickpinkston wrote: post #4
dmix wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on this for people not familiar with the types of MS that might exist? I have an aunt with MS and got excited by this article, but still wasn't aware that it might be limited to a subset?

Apparently there are multiple multiple scleroses.

Basicly just different severities. Afaik no clear indications that they have different causes, so I don't understand the reason for OPs objection. I would assume their results are spanning all types, or it would have been spesifically mentioned. Most research seems to be done on the more severe type, tho.

> They put Acinetobacter and Akkermansia bacteria into samples of healthy blood. The microbes increased the kind of cells that activate immune attack (they’re called T helper cells) and decreased the kind (regulatory T cells) that suppress excessive immune responses, including autoimmune attacks as in MS.

As far as I understand the article it seems like they have replicated the effect MS has on the T-cells, and that is not subtype spesific. If they could inhibit this effect it would be a fix across all subtypes, even if it doesn't fix the underlying problem.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#18

Post by alfon »

rocqua wrote: post #8
alfon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might also want to have her CSF independently tested for nematode worms. (what I mean by this is to put it under a microscope). it surely won't hurt, as some pathologists (although not published yet in the medical literature AFAIK) are finding them in all the samples they have tested for. More information: https://youtu.be/aTPU87CKQLQ?t=6m30s If this proves to be the case for your aunt, the good news is that anti…

I looked into both of those researchers. I could find nothing published by them with regards to MS. They do both seem to have published on Lyme disease. Can you provide any published research to back those youtube videos? Maybe I'm wrong here, but this feels like giving medical advice based on very little hard evidence. Considering I have a loved one with MS, I find such advice sickening. You see this with many termi…

I, myself, was diagnosed with RR Multiple Sclerosis, with multiple dem. lesions in both brain and spinal cord, ON, delayed evoked potentials, 4 years ago. Completely reversed the condition with long term antibiotics and anti-helmintics, no evidence of MS currently. So my advice might be biased, sorry. As I said, there is no harm in examining this perspective. I didn't advocate for treatment, but for testing.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#19

Post by lrem »

jryan49 wrote: post #12
Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

I've recently watched a ton of Ted talks on the subject (thank you, autoplay), so you can call me a proper internet know-it-all. The consensus seems to be: nobody knows, but the SAD certainly is not the right answer. As diverse as you can get and as little processed as you stand seem to be popular ideas too. Dropping sugar and milk seem commonly recommended, but they can pry my ice-cream from my cold, dead fingers.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#20

Post by zaptheimpaler »

jryan49 wrote: post #12
Mz wrote: post #10

the gut immune system has 70– 80% of the body's immune cells. http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G922 It seems like a pretty obvious connection once you know that detail. If you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you would likely benefit from improving your gut health. (Hint: Dietary changes are a good place to start.)

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

There have been a few studies on probiotics. Besides that I think not much is known scientifically.

But I think the best way is to realize you are free to experiment with your diet - with careful tracking of your diet, you may be able to find certain foods that work great or certain foods that make you feel worse etc. You can run an "n of 1" experiment on yourself and see what works. No need to wait for a study/evidence because its not coming anytime soon.

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