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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#371

We are allowing large corporations to dictate and push the web toward a closed system. A future where there has to be an App for that, and if you don't keep your head down you will be censored and cutoff from the rest of the online world.

Hogwash, there is more open source software now then ever before.

Yet users are less free now than ever before. The open source methodology leads to free libraries for devs, free labor for companies, but proprietary applications for users.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that? The latest article that references the W3C on their site already shows them as a member, and it appears that they were heavily involved in Do Not Track work before EME. Did they post something somewhere when they were joining? edit: The reply below has the link. Thank you!

> So last week, EFF increased its involvement in the W3C from being a regular participant and invited expert to a full member, to challenge DRM in the group's future work https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/eff-joins-w3c-fight-dr...

Excellent, thank you!

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#373
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you claim that Firefox (and other browsers) should implement malware or a malware interface into their browser so that users don't have a reason to download and install some other malware?

No, I am saying that browser manufacturers should slightly increase their vulnerability surface area (and maybe not at all - I don't know the internals of EME) in order to provide a locked-down feature to users that they would only otherwise get by downloading a native app that has access to their local file system, amongst other valuable things. It's the same logic that leads to them to support JavaScript.

Assuming the motivating reasoning here is that the overarching goal of the browser vendor should be to protect the user, the question still is what timeframe it is appropriate to consider. If the browser does not implement DRM, the user may download an infected native app to watch Netflix or porn from some far shadier website or whatever, sustaining more harm in the short run; however, if the user then is repeatedly infected with malware, chances are it will not take long for a general understanding that downloadable video players are garbage-piled-up-on-grandpa's-computer bad (in the same way that IE toolbar plugins or warez websites' "special download managers" were) to take root. This will maybe chip away at the addictive convenience of Netflix and co, and so they won't be able to dictate terms to the computing ecosystem as they evidently can right now, benefiting the user in the long run.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>DRM certainly has kept some (power) user-friendly features off the market. Is watching Netflix at 1080p or more a power user feature? Because currently that's heavily restricted by DRM. Not possible on any open-source operating system, restricted to a few browsers on Mac and Windows. 4K is only enabled on Microsoft Edge and only if you also activate a bunch of hardware DRM features. So I have to watch 720p content o…

> Is watching Netflix at 1080p or more a power user feature? Because currently that's heavily restricted by DRM. Not possible on any open-source operating system, restricted to a few browsers on Mac and Windows. Consuming content anything else than the mainstream browsers on anything else than the mainstream operating systems or devices is definitely a power user feature, yes.

I guess Google Chrome on Windows must be a niche thing then. Because that only gets 720p.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#375
post #342
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that is true. EME exists because media companies have the strange desire to treat their customers like criminals and Technology companies have the desire to ensure the user can not control the devices they "buy" from them. EME is about control and limiting freedom, not about replacing Flash

What I said is technically true. You are simply talking about conspiracy theories and politics. TV/Movie producers have a legitimate reason to want to protect their media. The lower the bar is for viewing the content they spend lots of money and work producing for free the more people do it. If there were no barriers to viewing movies then there are zero ways in our current economy to get a positive return. You can't…

>>TV/Movie producers have a legitimate reason to want to protect their media.

I disagree.

>>>The lower the bar is for viewing the content they spend lots of money and work producing for free the more people do it. If there were no barriers to viewing movies then there are zero ways in our current economy to get a positive return

umm they are the ones creating the Barriers, DRM is a Barrier. I can not tell you how many times I have wanted to buy a movie or some other content only to find out it is not on the Platform or service I have choose to use.

Instead they want to only use the Platforms or services they bless. This is where the monopoly power of copyright breaks down.

If I want to watch a movie using my rPi running kodi I should have an easy way to buy a movie that just plays via a standard codec, it should not only be on a netflix, or worse now that every studio is making their own streaming platform we are going to see more piracy because they are simply refusing to sell their content in the manner consumer wants to buy it.

Basicly if you do not use Windows/Mac/Andirod/iOS you are out of consuming media. Linux haha screw you

>>EME is a means to an end. It's not inherently evil

DRM is inherently evil..

>>but today there is no way for our modern media to exist in a fully open source world.

That is completely false there is thousand and thousands of hours of media that exist in a fully open source world.

Music is almost all DRM free today, there is a strong push for DRM Free books,

TV and Movies seem to be the last hold outs for Defective by Design DRM.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In 2013, EFF was disappointed to learn that the W3C had taken on the project of standardizing “Encrypted Media Extensions,” an API whose sole function was to provide a first-class role for DRM within the Web browser ecosystem" With so much money involved here, it's quite naive to believe the W3C members are virgins here and did this out love for the web and for the consumers. And: "It is clear that the W3C allowing…

DRM is also how you get media companies to publish on the web. Media companies couldn't give any less fucks about the web. They can go 100 years without publishing on the web, since they have other revenue paths that they're perfectly happy with. This whole process of enabling DRM is web developer's efforts to kiss media-companies ass in order for them to publish their products on the web. Artists and other creatives…

let them go, and take their drivel with them.

if they want DRM, let them convince their own customers; just leave it off my machine.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#378

For the record, the EFF only joined the W3C to fight EME in the first place. They're not resigning in protest, they're leaving the group because they didn't win the single battle they joined for the purpose of fighting.

Source please?

In case you didn't see it, parent replied with a link on my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15280029

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the extortionist environments that leads to. Media delivery in 2017 is hardly an extortionary environment. Practically speaking, Americans spend very little of their income on the Audible/Netflix/HBO Gos of the world. Netflix costs $120 a year? Against a median household income of $55,000, that is next to nothing. If anything, it's the opposite: there's a glut of content available to consume, in nearly every possib…

It's not about the content available. It's about the control.

"Extortion" typically refers to using force to unjustly extract money from someone. Without unjust extraction of money, there can be no extortion. I understand that others have concerns about control, and that's totally legitimate, but it's also not what I was responding to.
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