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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#311

Post by nebabyte »

nucleardog wrote: post #303
nebabyte wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mainline web: 0-rated DRMed Netflix if you pay ever-more exorbitant prices for our increasingly tiered package deals that make you try and remember the joy of 'cutting the cord'" "Alternative web: Some competition without DRM, zero-rating, or other nonneutrality bullshit" You go ahead and stick with your Netflix, buddy, and best of luck to ya. American ISPs and legal precedent are all of course bought up by the inte…

Your assertion that standardizing DRM forces everyone to use it makes about as much sense as the assertion that teaching teenagers about condoms will make them all have sex.

"Don't worry, once we standardize it we won't have to use it!"

Sure, I'd be happy to relegate you to subset of people I just ignore on the basis of their inability to learn from history.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#312

Post by mozumder »

5_minutes wrote: post #265
throwaway34241 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence or reason to believe there is actual corruption on the committee (aside from them making a decision you disagree with)? I suspect I agree with you on DRM but this style of debate, where there is no attempt to argue or explain the issue, and the first line of argument is personal attacks or denigrating anyone with an opposing viewpoint, is depressing. Consider that accusing climate scientists…

"In 2013, EFF was disappointed to learn that the W3C had taken on the project of standardizing “Encrypted Media Extensions,” an API whose sole function was to provide a first-class role for DRM within the Web browser ecosystem" With so much money involved here, it's quite naive to believe the W3C members are virgins here and did this out love for the web and for the consumers. And: "It is clear that the W3C allowing…

DRM is also how you get media companies to publish on the web.

Media companies couldn't give any less fucks about the web. They can go 100 years without publishing on the web, since they have other revenue paths that they're perfectly happy with.

This whole process of enabling DRM is web developer's efforts to kiss media-companies ass in order for them to publish their products on the web. Artists and other creatives have the option to publish their works wherever they see fit. It's their creation, not the public's. In fact, there are actual art galleries that won't sell you their works if they don't deem you sufficient enough. How you exhibit their work matters to them. That's their right.

The web needs these media companies more than the media companies need the web.

Anyone that complains about DRM is doing it wrong. You are limiting the web because you are saying you don't want media companies to publish on the web. You are now causing the web to compete against media companies private apps or physical media, which is a losing proposition.

No one gives a shit about freedom. Everyone wants to use rights-managed content online. And the ONLY way to do that is with DRM.

So, yah, I'm not seeing any corruption here. Just acknowledgement of the fact that artists own their works, and web developers need to kiss their ass if they want artists to publish on the web.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#313

Post by kibwen »

dTal wrote: post #295
bubblethink wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What good is integrity if nobody uses Firefox ? That was the main reason they added EME support in the first place. Firefox staying relevant in the browser market is a better strategy in the long run than a hard line stance against DRM.

What good is Firefox if it doesn't have integrity?

I can't tell if this is satire. Does anyone seriously believe that surrendering the war when you've lost one battle is an intelligent strategy? Mozilla contributes a whole lot to OSS, including providing a browser that can be trivially used without any black-box DRM-enforcement code hitting your system.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#314

Post by cbhl »

5_minutes wrote: post #265
throwaway34241 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence or reason to believe there is actual corruption on the committee (aside from them making a decision you disagree with)? I suspect I agree with you on DRM but this style of debate, where there is no attempt to argue or explain the issue, and the first line of argument is personal attacks or denigrating anyone with an opposing viewpoint, is depressing. Consider that accusing climate scientists…

"In 2013, EFF was disappointed to learn that the W3C had taken on the project of standardizing “Encrypted Media Extensions,” an API whose sole function was to provide a first-class role for DRM within the Web browser ecosystem" With so much money involved here, it's quite naive to believe the W3C members are virgins here and did this out love for the web and for the consumers. And: "It is clear that the W3C allowing…

A lot of people think that the battle here is EME versus DRM-free content, but that's not the case. You can still have all the DRM-free content you want, whether that's YouTube videos or iTunes MP3s.

Really, the decision being made is between EME and Adobe Flash. Flash was the one cross-platform way to serve DRMed content before EME. And now that EME is ratified, Adobe, Microsoft, Google and Mozilla can all work together to get rid of Flash, and all the 0-days it has been responsible for, and improve security and battery life for everyone on the Internet. https://blog.chromium.org/2017/07/so-long-and-thanks-for-all...

Of course, we should also work to get rid of DRM -- it gets in the way of legitimate uses, and annoys legitimate users far more than it annoys pirates. But rather than vilifying Google and W3C and expecting them to be our saviors, instead we should be talking to Hollywood and Authors to adopt a DRM-free model just as many top musicians already have.

Disclaimer: I work at YouTube, and this is my personal opinion, not that of my employer.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#316

Post by pdimitar »

nebabyte wrote: post #296
pdimitar wrote: post #246

It's time to abandon the major web standards and start devising our own infrastructure. Better stateless protocol, end-to-end encryption on every connection -- no exceptions! -- decentralized encrypted vaults of cached assets (where every user donates a few or few hundred gigabytes of disk space to participiate -- effectively becoming a node in a decentralized CDN). We've left the corporations run wild for far too lo…

The time for that was long past.

There are many of us that are still warm to the idea and will help. I personally can donate 500GB of HDD space.

Unless the governments outlaw encrypted communications and/or homemade wireless equipment, it's never too late.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#317

Post by wakamoleguy »

favorited wrote: post #81

For the record, the EFF only joined the W3C to fight EME in the first place. They're not resigning in protest, they're leaving the group because they didn't win the single battle they joined for the purpose of fighting.

Do you have a source for that? The latest article that references the W3C on their site already shows them as a member, and it appears that they were heavily involved in Do Not Track work before EME. Did they post something somewhere when they were joining?

edit: The reply below has the link. Thank you!

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#318

Post by syshum »

Sargos wrote: post #301
Crespyl wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we were finally killing them off with the death of Flash, Java Plug-In, and Silverlight, and the adoption of HTML5.

I don't think that's true. EME exists -because- we started getting rid of Flash, Java, Silverlight etc due to their security issues. There needed to be something to replace those proprietary plugins or else some of the largest websites on the internet would just break with no way to fix them. EME is the standardized version of the needed functionality from those obsolete plugins.

I dont think that is true. EME exists because media companies have the strange desire to treat their customers like criminals and Technology companies have the desire to ensure the user can not control the devices they "buy" from them.

EME is about control and limiting freedom, not about replacing Flash

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#319

Post by kibwen »

wolfgke wrote: post #232
azakai wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla opposed EME very strongly. But when it was clear that Google, Microsoft and Apple all supported it and were shipping it, Mozilla was forced to ship it as well (with a flag that makes it easy to disable for users that want to).

> Mozilla was forced to ship it as well If anybody was forcing them, it were the media companies.

Google is also a media company. (Microsoft too, though Xbox isn't especially relevant here.)

EDIT: Yes, and Apple, I completely forgot about iTunes.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#320

Post by nebabyte »

spdustin wrote: post #204
benevol wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism at work - a handful of ultra-rich guys winning even more ground over common folks again.

In this case, the “common folk” you refer to don’t give a shit.

Only while the consequences of "not giving a shit" aren't immediately affecting them.

Those same people are the ones who turn around and complain "what can we do" and organize social media armchair protests when consequences simple enough for them to understand come along.

Not the best allies.

https://xkcd.com/743/

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