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To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

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Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#21

Post by gforge »

Lovely article, as an orthopaedic surgeon I can tell you that most of us know this. Treating chronic pain with surgery is generally a bad idea, I spend a large share of my time explaining this. Some patients are grateful for this, but I think that many go and try to find "a real doctor".

An interesting development is that there is generally an increased acceptance for psychiatric diagnoses. More are accepting that just as the pancreas may stop delivering insulin, the brain may fail to uphold the proper seretonin levels. Unfortunately it is not as simple as that, fixing seretonin or any other substance is like pouring oil over an engine and hope that it reaches the target. Still, I'm sure that we will see a huge change as true targeted treatments are no longer just sci-fi. Getting people to the right specialist is until then a good start.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#22

Post by sg47 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #12
katastic wrote: post #5

I've been living this horror for six years. If I could just magically stop using medicine and not being treated like a drug addict for merely taking prescribed medicine by all walks of society (from cops, to nurses, to neighbors), don't you think I'd have already fucking taken that choice? The majority of people don't want to be on pills. They want to get better. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed,…

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

+1 to this. I suffered from back pain for a long time. Long distance running made it worse. Running made my core weaker and my back pain became worse. Physical therapy did not help. MRI scan revealed a 5 degree scoliosis and a slightly bulging disc (L5/S1). What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for the back, core and upper body in general. Before starting strength training, focus on relieving tightness for a couple of weeks.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#23

Post by tudorw »

maxxxxx wrote: post #19
jaggederest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is that there's no difference between psychosomatic pain and pain where there's a physical cause. The brain activity that people think of as being "just psychosomatic" is actual, physical changes that causes both direct perception of pain within the brain itself and also changes in the rest of the body that result in peripheral pain. Stress doesn't just make you imagine you have joint pain, it actuall…

I accept that your thoughts can create pain but I think there is also pain that's being caused first by a physical event. Example: someone drilling your tooth.

You're right, that's known as nociceptive pain, the other is known as neuropathic pain, here's a nice piece, it's moving on the knowledge that these types of pain, emotional and physical if you like, cause a similar area of the brain to 'light up' (http://www.pnas.org/content/108/15/6270.abstract), and how advances are allowing more fine grain observation of these reactions http://healthland.time.com/2013/05/06/a-pain-detector-for-th...

Although to be a pedant, tooth drilling is apparently not quite nociceptive as it's the nerve being vibrated that causes an intense sensation that's easy to interpret as 'pain', I try and think about fireworks instead...

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#24

Post by tcj_phx »

gforge wrote: post #21

Lovely article, as an orthopaedic surgeon I can tell you that most of us know this. Treating chronic pain with surgery is generally a bad idea, I spend a large share of my time explaining this. Some patients are grateful for this, but I think that many go and try to find "a real doctor". An interesting development is that there is generally an increased acceptance for psychiatric diagnoses. More are accepting that ju…

> An interesting development is that there is generally an increased acceptance for psychiatric diagnoses.

Psychiatry is the only medical specialty that has a resistance movement and survivors groups. I think psychiatrists do okay with diagnosis, but commonly-used treatments frequently make the patients' condition worse. Ref: Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic

> More are accepting that just as the pancreas may stop delivering insulin, the brain may fail to uphold the proper seretonin levels.

The MAOIs were reasonably effective as anti-depressants, but fell out of favor as newer & less-effective patent medicines were approved. The SSRIs are slightly better than a placebo, for some patients. I think the Paxil hawkers recently lost a lawsuit over a lawyer who rapidly became suicidal after starting that drug. He threw himself in front of a train: https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/05/change-in-chicago-playi...

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#25

Post by hellogoodbyeeee »

sg47 wrote: post #22
ransom1538 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

+1 to this. I suffered from back pain for a long time. Long distance running made it worse. Running made my core weaker and my back pain became worse. Physical therapy did not help. MRI scan revealed a 5 degree scoliosis and a slightly bulging disc (L5/S1). What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for th…

> What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for the back, core and upper body in general.

For the record, this is what a good physical therapist would have prescribed.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#26

Post by hkmurakami »

sg47 wrote: post #22
ransom1538 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

+1 to this. I suffered from back pain for a long time. Long distance running made it worse. Running made my core weaker and my back pain became worse. Physical therapy did not help. MRI scan revealed a 5 degree scoliosis and a slightly bulging disc (L5/S1). What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for th…

Those Glutius Medii (sp?) are tough cookies!!! Core and stability work are often more important than just strength. Also the hip flexors are really key too. My adductors and I have a love/hate relationship. :)

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#27

Post by pstuart »

ransom1538 wrote: post #12
katastic wrote: post #5

I've been living this horror for six years. If I could just magically stop using medicine and not being treated like a drug addict for merely taking prescribed medicine by all walks of society (from cops, to nurses, to neighbors), don't you think I'd have already fucking taken that choice? The majority of people don't want to be on pills. They want to get better. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed,…

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

Sometimes you're just physically fucked. In my case it took a microdiscectomy to end the agony.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#28

Post by hkmurakami »

yodsanklai wrote: post #13
ransom1538 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing Do you work remotely? I assume laying isn't an option in an office. Even standing, it may be frowned upon in more conservative work places.

Depends I guess. I know places (~100 people) where their chief architect sleeps on the floor with his feet sticking out from under his desk in the middle of the day.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#29

Post by chrismealy »

bambax wrote: post #9

Not one mention of The Mindbody Prescription (if only to dismiss it)? If you're suffering from back pain, or carpal tunnel syndrome, or such ailments, read this book, it might change your life! (and if it doesn't it can't harm) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0446675156/

I read about three chapters of this and it cured my wrist pain. Never would have believed it possible if it hadn't happened to me.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#30

Post by justanotheratom »

bambax wrote: post #9

Not one mention of The Mindbody Prescription (if only to dismiss it)? If you're suffering from back pain, or carpal tunnel syndrome, or such ailments, read this book, it might change your life! (and if it doesn't it can't harm) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0446675156/

I had excruciating upper back pain as well as wrist pain. I had tried an insane number of things. Read the book. Cured.
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