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To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

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Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#11

Post by maxxxxx »

ta8457348 wrote: post #8
melling wrote: post #3

The Mind Body Approach: Cures back pain, rsi... https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connectio... http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html

FWIW, this worked for me. I had absolutely debilitating pain in a hip joint as if I had a handful of needles loose in there. I had it for several months, I had an MRI, a bone scan, tried physio, acupuncture and what have you with zero effect. At some point got a "procedure" scheduled for some sort of steroid injection directly into the spine column and was prescribed some nasty anti-inflammatory pills to "prep" for t…

I read the Sarno book and I didn't get anything out of it. From reading your comment it seems that it may apply to psychosomatic pain but not to pain where there is a physical cause. Is this correct? It kind of makes sense. When I am stressed I am much more susceptible to pain and disease than when I am happy.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#12

Post by ransom1538 »

katastic wrote: post #5

I've been living this horror for six years. If I could just magically stop using medicine and not being treated like a drug addict for merely taking prescribed medicine by all walks of society (from cops, to nurses, to neighbors), don't you think I'd have already fucking taken that choice? The majority of people don't want to be on pills. They want to get better. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed,…

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you lay down, so you can get lost in work (most don't get backpain while laying down). The data on back surgeries is not good, plain physical therapy does better. If you need something for depression I would look into edibles with lots of cbd - do your best to stay away from opioids.

ALSO: Research the anti-inflammatory nabumetone. I don't know why doctors don't bring it up. (not additive, no high)

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#13

Post by yodsanklai »

ransom1538 wrote: post #12
katastic wrote: post #5

I've been living this horror for six years. If I could just magically stop using medicine and not being treated like a drug addict for merely taking prescribed medicine by all walks of society (from cops, to nurses, to neighbors), don't you think I'd have already fucking taken that choice? The majority of people don't want to be on pills. They want to get better. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed,…

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing

Do you work remotely? I assume laying isn't an option in an office. Even standing, it may be frowned upon in more conservative work places.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#14

Post by ryanmarsh »

katastic wrote: post #5

I've been living this horror for six years. If I could just magically stop using medicine and not being treated like a drug addict for merely taking prescribed medicine by all walks of society (from cops, to nurses, to neighbors), don't you think I'd have already fucking taken that choice? The majority of people don't want to be on pills. They want to get better. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed,…

I feel you and I went through that horror too. By what I'm about to say please know that I don't mean to diminish the severity of your injuries and pain nor do I mean to suggest any lack of diligence on your part in finding the right treatment or implying that any treatment could work for you.

I'm not going to bore you with my story except to say, looking back, I'm amazed I was able to endure such pain for so long. I cry sometimes when I remember it.

I too had to fight to get the treatment I needed to "survive". Surviving was still miserable and I was always at the mercy of my pills and my health care providers. Thank god I make good money and managed to remain employed. I don't know how the average person could have afforded to pay for everything modern medicine has to offer like I did. Scans, injections, surgery, pills, PT...

May I suggest that an expert (I mean a top doc) in traditional Chinese medicine can take you from surviving to truly living. There are some things Western medicine truly excels at and for that I am grateful. However it does have blind spots. Some of those blind spots are perfect for eastern medicine. I thought it was vodoo bullshit but I found a few providers that legitimately changed my life. Plenty eastern medicine docs were total quacks. You get that in the west because it's fairly unregulated. I was lucky to stumble upon some of the best, people who even publish.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#15

Post by toasterlovin »

ransom1538 wrote: post #12
katastic wrote: post #5

I've been living this horror for six years. If I could just magically stop using medicine and not being treated like a drug addict for merely taking prescribed medicine by all walks of society (from cops, to nurses, to neighbors), don't you think I'd have already fucking taken that choice? The majority of people don't want to be on pills. They want to get better. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed,…

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

If you're enthusiastic about milk and believe that strength is the way out of pain, I have the best recommendation for you: Starting Strength.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#16

Post by jaggederest »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11
ta8457348 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, this worked for me. I had absolutely debilitating pain in a hip joint as if I had a handful of needles loose in there. I had it for several months, I had an MRI, a bone scan, tried physio, acupuncture and what have you with zero effect. At some point got a "procedure" scheduled for some sort of steroid injection directly into the spine column and was prescribed some nasty anti-inflammatory pills to "prep" for t…

I read the Sarno book and I didn't get anything out of it. From reading your comment it seems that it may apply to psychosomatic pain but not to pain where there is a physical cause. Is this correct? It kind of makes sense. When I am stressed I am much more susceptible to pain and disease than when I am happy.

The whole point is that there's no difference between psychosomatic pain and pain where there's a physical cause.

The brain activity that people think of as being "just psychosomatic" is actual, physical changes that causes both direct perception of pain within the brain itself and also changes in the rest of the body that result in peripheral pain.

Stress doesn't just make you imagine you have joint pain, it actually causes it directly in measurable ways. Catecholamines are extremely powerful and if you start cranking them out because you're stressed, everything works worse, which often results in pain, which is of course an additional stressor.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#17

Post by adrice727 »

ta8457348 wrote: post #8
melling wrote: post #3

The Mind Body Approach: Cures back pain, rsi... https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connectio... http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html

FWIW, this worked for me. I had absolutely debilitating pain in a hip joint as if I had a handful of needles loose in there. I had it for several months, I had an MRI, a bone scan, tried physio, acupuncture and what have you with zero effect. At some point got a "procedure" scheduled for some sort of steroid injection directly into the spine column and was prescribed some nasty anti-inflammatory pills to "prep" for t…

I had success with the Sarno method as well. My comment from a previous HN discussion [1]:

I started having back issues about five years ago. It got so bad that getting out of bed in the morning was a struggle. I was diagnosed with a herniated disc at L4/L5. I tried chiropractic, acupuncture, and massage therapy to no avail. Then I came across one of Sarno's books. I remembered Howard Stern singing his praises years ago on his show, so I decided to at least give it a shot. I was very skeptical, but within the first twenty pages Sarno had described my situation to a tee. I started following his advice and saw immediate results. I was back to running and doing yoga within a few days and a couple weeks later I was back in the gym doing dead lifts. Aside from an occasional flare up during stressful periods, I haven't had any issues since then.

However, I don't agree with Sarno's view that the mind uses pain as a diversion from psychological or emotional issues. I think it uses to pain as a way to get our attention, to let us know that we need to deal with those underlying issues.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12986759

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#18

Post by taxicabjesus »

I've watched some older family members degenerate over the years... Sometimes doctors do good work, sometimes the medical-industrial complex makes work for itself.

I knocked myself out at the lake when I was 17 years old. I mostly recovered over the following six months, but rapidly developed an inflammatory condition when I went off to college a year later. Retrospectively, my apathy towards my degree program was an important factor. After the fourth doctor I said to myself, "screw you guys, I'm going to figure myself out."

I wrote about this previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13123659

When I was suffering through college I decided it would be helpful to be able to "relax" (mind awake, body asleep), and to visualize. What a long, strange road it's been...

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#19

Post by maxxxxx »

jaggederest wrote: post #16
maxxxxx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the Sarno book and I didn't get anything out of it. From reading your comment it seems that it may apply to psychosomatic pain but not to pain where there is a physical cause. Is this correct? It kind of makes sense. When I am stressed I am much more susceptible to pain and disease than when I am happy.

The whole point is that there's no difference between psychosomatic pain and pain where there's a physical cause. The brain activity that people think of as being "just psychosomatic" is actual, physical changes that causes both direct perception of pain within the brain itself and also changes in the rest of the body that result in peripheral pain. Stress doesn't just make you imagine you have joint pain, it actuall…

I accept that your thoughts can create pain but I think there is also pain that's being caused first by a physical event. Example: someone drilling your tooth.
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