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The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

nytimes.com

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Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#111

Post by criddell »

nextstep wrote: post #5

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

When I was 20, I thought exactly the same. Now that I'm closing in on 50 I love life in the 'burbs. When self-driving cars are available I will likely move a bit further out of the city where I can have more space.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#112

Post by alkonaut »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #102
paulddraper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a car is darn convenient for a family-sized weekly grocery trip.

I'm surprised you don't have better delivery options in the US, in the UK the main supermarkets all offer good internet ordering.

I have excellent delivery options but I want to see what I'm buying so I very much prefer driving to the grocery store. Even if 90% of the products are of the kind you can buy without seeing (detergents, canned foods etc) the stuff I need to see like fresh fish/fresh meat etc is so important for what else I'll need. I could probably get a lot of the recurring purchases delivered but I'm not going to shop for groceries any less than 2-3 times per week anyway.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#113

Post by burntsushi »

eastWestMath wrote: post #92
burntsushi wrote: post #79

I'm a millennial, and it made me sick to read this. It made me glad that I live where I live. I don't live in the suburbs in spite of having my own discrete unit; I live in the suburbs precisely because I have my own discrete unit. I want my own backyard so that I can go and enjoy sitting by a fire with music I like without ever needing to worry that I might have to compete with others on a cool Friday night in Autum…

So basically you like to live in the suburbs for antisocial reasons, and you your argument against the research showing suburbs are an ecological disaster boils down to "nuh-uh".

I didn't make any argument against any research. I stated my own personal desires which run deeply contrary to the desires grafted on to me by the OP.

Also, none of what I said had anything to do with being antisocial.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#114

Post by taway_1212 »

fuzzybeard wrote: post #19
taway_1212 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it costs more to build and maintain a house (compared to a flat), and most of the other countries, even the developed ones, aren't as affluent as the US.

But after 15 years my house is paid off. With renting, you're paying for the rest of your life. After my mortgage I only pay taxes and upkeep which is a fraction as much.

It's not a matter of renting vs buying. In many other countries, just paying off the mortgage for a flat will take 15-30 years.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#115

Post by ch4s3 »

gozur88 wrote: post #57
ufo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The home mortgage interest deduction is effectively a subsidy for suburban borrowers.

Why would you think that? Are people who buy million dollar shacks in SF forgoing their deduction? It's hard to imagine.

It's a subsidy for all mortgages. More people would rent if not for this subsidy. Also any roady that connect your suburb to anywhere are heavily subsidized, to the tune of greater than 60%. If your suburb build its sewers with bonds, they too end up receiving various forms of subsidy. It would be truly unique in the whole of the US if your community's property taxes covered the full cost of local services and weren't partially covered from the state's general fund.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#116

Post by Xcelerate »

jedberg wrote: post #9
nextstep wrote: post #5

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

Out of curiosity, do you have kids? It's mighty convenient to have a car with all the stuff in it and plenty of space to park that car nearby, and also lots of space for the kids to play outside.

> and also lots of space for the kids to play outside.

Do kids still play outside these days? I'm only 27, but from what I've seen of the 6-18 crowd they tend to be stuck in front of a screen most of the day.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#117

Post by brianwawok »

ido wrote: post #108
afpx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've never been to Salt Lake City. Where are some good places to live? I did a look in Zillow, and there are a few houses within 30 minute commute for under 300k. Most seem above 350k and further than 30 min, though. Which still isn't bad. But, assuming around $2,000 / month for mortgage and taxes, I'd have to make $120k+, gross, to have it be 20% of my income. Are there a lot of jobs there that pay that…

The rule of thumb is for housing to be up to 1/3 of your net pay, not 20%.

Whos rule of thumb is that, the banks? I am below 10% and this is after a pay cut (i.e. its not because I make 500k).

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#118

Post by paulddraper »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #102
paulddraper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a car is darn convenient for a family-sized weekly grocery trip.

I'm surprised you don't have better delivery options in the US, in the UK the main supermarkets all offer good internet ordering.

There are delivery options, but lots of people don't use them.

(1) It's nice to see food first, especially produce and to a lesser extend meat.

(2) "Buy X for me every week" is where delivery shines, but you can't adjust for deals.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#119

Post by paulddraper »

paulddraper wrote: post #81
afpx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've never been to Salt Lake City. Where are some good places to live? I did a look in Zillow, and there are a few houses within 30 minute commute for under 300k. Most seem above 350k and further than 30 min, though. Which still isn't bad. But, assuming around $2,000 / month for mortgage and taxes, I'd have to make $120k+, gross, to have it be 20% of my income. Are there a lot of jobs there that pay that…

Not on average. But since this is HN, there's a good chance you are a software engineer. Assuming solid ability and a few years experience, yes. Also, I bought my first house in 2015. 2k sq ft, 0.2 acre, 2 was car garage, built 1976, 25min from SLC city center, for under $200k. Prices have gone up 10% since. My wife and there kids and I live quite

* Should be: My wife and three kids and I live quite comfortably on my software engineering salary.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#120

Post by pascalxus »

wil421 wrote: post #34
pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

Speak for yourself and your own city. My city doesn't really have a housing problem and I'd bet a vast majority in the US don't either. I'm easily a 15 min train ride from downtown and I have a huge back yard, garden, and space for my kayaking stuff. Sure it's pricey in the city centers but not outrageous. It's only my California friends who are complaing, and to some extent Seattle. If you're spending 60% of your in…

Enjoy your city while it lasts. Most blue/"Progressive" states and many blue cities especially coastal ones are all heading in this direction: Seattle, Portland, etc because they're not building enough. Their future is what CA looks like right now.

There were studies done on this and they found a pattern of housing problems in the more progressive cities - because they often clamp down on housing, reducing the supply, in the name of progess.

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