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The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

nytimes.com

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Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#71

Post by cbcoutinho »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #41
jedberg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you have kids? It's mighty convenient to have a car with all the stuff in it and plenty of space to park that car nearby, and also lots of space for the kids to play outside.

My wife and I bought a house in pre-car suburb that was exactly what we wanted: dense, public transit, lots of places to go on foot (doctor, library, municipal building, 3 separate shopping districts, hardware/general store, dozen parks and playgrounds, &c). We wanted a good school, but weren't willing to sacrifice our way of life, and we found, I think, the perfect spot. (We love our neighbors too, but didn't know t…

Where is this? In the states, suburbs were dreamed up along with the assumption of having a car - so the idea of a 'non-car' suburb is pretty foreign to me

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#72

Post by ChuckMcM »

pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

   > Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be.
I think it is more nuanced than that. The future is always a direction and not a destination. The article points out that the direction is more mixed us and less islands, more mass transit and less individual vehicle ownership.

So for a long time the 'way' was zoning commercial or zoning residential, never in between. But the 'future' became mixed use, and new projects started getting zoned that way, and now 20 years later we've got lots of places where there are shops below and condos or apartments above. I even saw a proposal for connected residents where the owner of a shop can live right over their business which could be leased at the same time, mitigating issues with living far away from your office.

And with most things as you move forward in a direction you learn things and then those things affect your direction. To the extent that new modalities of employment (working 'remotely' in high tech as an example) it also opens up development options. Imagine a chunk of Missouri converted into a 'town' with really nice Internet service so that folks living there could work from their 'home' or maybe a community 'office' but otherwise exploit low land and building costs of the different areas.

I think you need to consider that while you're top priority is a "roof over [your] head without it costing 60% of your paycheck" there is someone trying imagine what part of the equation they can change so that they can offer that to you while accommodating the way in which you acquire that paycheck.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#73

Post by hahamrfunnyguy »

pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

There's plenty of cities already! I live in a smaller city, for me there is a good amount of employment options and stuff to do. I have a decent sized lot, have a 20 minute commute by bike (to the burbs!) and have plenty of places to eat within a 10 minute walk.

It is very affordable here, and there is plenty of housing to boot. I was able to buy a house my first year out of school. It was about 25% of my paycheck at the time and I've since paid off the place.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#74

Post by majormajor »

rayiner wrote: post #64
majormajor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. You can't in SF, NY, LA... other areas don't have this problem. If your biggest desire is to have your housing not cost more than 60% of your paycheck, move to the suburbs of somewhere like Dallas. You'll be shocked at how many millennials can afford to have nice apartment…

Or Atlanta. Even millennial who don’t work in tech can afford condos downtown.

Atlanta is fascinating because a lot of areas of Atlanta, like midtown and buckhead, seem to be doing exactly the sort of smart building that is so apparently impossible in California: transforming inside-the-perimeter space into higher-density inside-the-perimeter space, while already being bustling business centers, to an extent I haven't seen as much in the parts of Dallas I've spent most time in (I'm familiar with the continued expansion of satellite cities/suburbs, and the use of all the land to spread things around sufficiently so that it hasn't become the rush-hour-all-the-time mess of LA, but less so what's going on in more central areas).

My guess is that the difference is that more of those spaces in Atlanta had become more abandoned residentially in the past since there was room to expand outwards, opening them up for redevelopment now, whereas in LA or SF much of the old-construction lower-density stuff has remained in continual high demand because people have already gone outward just about as far as currently possible (1-2hr each way commutes) so NIMBYism kicks in hard. Plus things like "environmental impact studies" concluding traffic will be worse, etc—I'm very skeptical of the idea that keeping density low so everyone has to commute from further away really helps the environment.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#75

Post by wu_tang_chris »

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #73
pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

There's plenty of cities already! I live in a smaller city, for me there is a good amount of employment options and stuff to do. I have a decent sized lot, have a 20 minute commute by bike (to the burbs!) and have plenty of places to eat within a 10 minute walk. It is very affordable here, and there is plenty of housing to boot. I was able to buy a house my first year out of school. It was about 25% of my paycheck at…

What city?

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#76

Post by [deleted] »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #72
pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

> Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. I think it is more nuanced than that. The future is always a direction and not a destination. The article points out that the direction is more mixed us and less islands, more mass transit and less individual vehicle ownership. So for a long time the 'way' was zoning commercial or zoning residential, never in between. But the 'future' became mixe…

[deleted]

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#77

Post by jimktrains2 »

cbcoutinho wrote: post #71
jimktrains2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I bought a house in pre-car suburb that was exactly what we wanted: dense, public transit, lots of places to go on foot (doctor, library, municipal building, 3 separate shopping districts, hardware/general store, dozen parks and playgrounds, &c). We wanted a good school, but weren't willing to sacrifice our way of life, and we found, I think, the perfect spot. (We love our neighbors too, but didn't know t…

Where is this? In the states, suburbs were dreamed up along with the assumption of having a car - so the idea of a 'non-car' suburb is pretty foreign to me

Just south of Pittsburgh in the Mt Lebanon and Dormont area. My area was built up in Tue 1920s before having a car, let lone multiple cars for a family was a given.

I'm not sure what you'd call this if not a suburb. The exurban areas are the ones from the 50s on that are nothing but houses arranged in the worst way possible.

Honestly, a lot of the first and second ring suburbs are like this. The Mon Valley (suburbs and towns along one of our rivers to the south east) is set up like this, but has been decimated by the loss of industry.

(Mt Lebanon is a township so part of it does go down the super low density route, but not the older sections.)

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#78

Post by felipellrocha »

alkonaut wrote: post #43
nextstep wrote: post #5

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

I said that too. And I'm not a millenial but a 70's kid. And then I had kids of my own and now I can't imagine not having a car to stuff the kids into, or a big backyard so I don't have to walk to the park with them to play. It's not like I wan't to drive everywhere, it's just the tradeoff I'm happy to accept in order to have a house with a big backyard for the kids to play in. So this is nothing new. People have alw…

I grew in Brazil, where it was possible to have a big family and grow up in the city. The issue is not that one has grown up, or that one has a family. The issue is that society forces you down a path at a certain point in life, instead of presenting the options (which, if they were given equally, living in a city would almost certainly win).

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#79

Post by burntsushi »

I'm a millennial, and it made me sick to read this. It made me glad that I live where I live. I don't live in the suburbs in spite of having my own discrete unit; I live in the suburbs precisely because I have my own discrete unit.

I want my own backyard so that I can go and enjoy sitting by a fire with music I like without ever needing to worry that I might have to compete with others on a cool Friday night in Autumn.

I want my own driveway so that I can go play basketball whenever I feel like, without needing to feel pressured to play nice with others.

I want my own car so that I can drive to and from work in peace, and so that I can do whatever I want in my car, like smoke a cigar. What's the likelihood that my friendly neighborhood ride sharing service will let me do that? Zero. My car is just about the only place left I can smoke in Massachusetts when I'm not at home, and I'm happy to pay for that privilege.

Even if I were OK with all of that, there are numerous dubious claims made in this article about how this new style of living would benefit the environment and would presumably save people from flooding. Really? Would it? How did you figure that? Or does it just sound like it makes sense?

Many signs point to me being stranger than my generational cohorts, but I like the suburbs precisely because I viscerally dislike living in shared spaces.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#80

Post by ant6n »

burntsushi wrote: post #79

I'm a millennial, and it made me sick to read this. It made me glad that I live where I live. I don't live in the suburbs in spite of having my own discrete unit; I live in the suburbs precisely because I have my own discrete unit. I want my own backyard so that I can go and enjoy sitting by a fire with music I like without ever needing to worry that I might have to compete with others on a cool Friday night in Autum…

Free health advice: smoking kills.
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