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Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

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Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#51

Post by guelo »

mattnewport wrote: post #18
erentz wrote: post #7

No. Lack of universal health care and a proper social safety net resulted in the Hepatitis outbreak. Hepatitis can be prevented through vaccination, which a universal health care system would provide. Through treatment, which a universal health care system would provide. And proper sanitary conditions, which taking care of people so they don't have to live on the streets would provide.

We still get hepatitis outbreaks here in Canada despite our universal healthcare. Universal healthcare does not automatically solve the problem of getting vaccinations to vulnerable populations or prioritizing the right interventions at the right time given limited resources. Maybe our situation is better here in this regard, I don't know the statistics, but it's demonstrably false that universal healthcare automatic…

For whatever reason Canada doesn't require childhood HepA vaccinations, though they could.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#52

Post by xiaoma »

javajocky wrote: post #22
mattnewport wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still get hepatitis outbreaks here in Canada despite our universal healthcare. Universal healthcare does not automatically solve the problem of getting vaccinations to vulnerable populations or prioritizing the right interventions at the right time given limited resources. Maybe our situation is better here in this regard, I don't know the statistics, but it's demonstrably false that universal healthcare automatic…

I have no idea why you're getting downvoted for stating facts, and not in an argumentative or derogatory way. You're stating the truth, perhaps one people don't want to hear, but it's immature for them to downvote you.

It's the same reason people try to get each other fired, "deplatformed" or ostracized for off-handed remarks, relatively mainstream opinions or even for supporting the wrong side of a divisive issue years in the past.

People are very tribal, the Anglosphere is highly politicized and it's a lot easier to make a snap judgment and label someone as part of an enemy tribe than it is to deal with nuanced statements.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#53

Post by zeveb »

antnisp wrote: post #24
BlackjackCF wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the plastic bag ban is only a side effect of the real problem. California has a homeless problem and there aren't enough resources made available in California to address this. The homeless don't have access to resources to readily dispose of waste.

One of the richest and largest polities on earth doesn't have the resources to guarantee basic sanitaion for all residents.

One of the richest and largest polities on earth has a large number of mentally-ill people who would befoul basic sanitation facilities were they given access to them.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#54

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

frogpelt wrote: post #33
thenewwazoo wrote: post #5

How many public health crises in the USA can be boiled down to "the USA fails to provide a safety net that ensures a certain standard of living"? If this plastic-bag hypothesis bears out, it'll be yet another.

There people living in the streets pooping in bags. And you think we just need more safety nets?

....Yes?

The support system in the US is drastically underfunded, which leads to it being understaffed and underprovisioned for the tasks it tries to accomplish. There's a second layer of ideological opposition to helping poor people that exacerbates the problem.

Proper funding and removing ideology-driven sabotage for safety nets would remove a sizable amount of street bag pooping.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#55

Post by rlanday »

narrator wrote: post #31
tareqak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would include public showers, and public baths like some parts of France. Edit: Actually wouldn't public washrooms, showers, and baths help everyone in that if they are located frequently enough, businesses wouldn't have to be built with public washrooms in mind, or pay for the cost of cleaning and maintenance. They would have to pay for the public washrooms through taxes though.

At the train stations in Paris, they have pay toilets and people beg for change outside them so they can use them.

Great way to be hospitable to the foreign tourists who don't carry coins...

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#56

Post by mindslight »

ass3r7 wrote: post #27
djsumdog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea bag taxes are dumb. They should just ban plastic bags entirely like in Seattle or Portland. You can just get paper bags. Some stores charge 5 cents, but some stores its free. And you can always bring your cloth bags. I do that all the time. If you're complaining about reusable bags at the store, you should take a good long think about every questionable surface and hand those groceries touched on the way to the s…

No your cloth bags are not the solution. It's a trade off between immediate needs and future costs. I don't dispute plastic bags have many negative externalities however they are profoundly immediately useful to humans. There are massive unintended consequences whenever you impose a designed objective function on reality as a planner. In regards to the questionable surfaces I don't dispute that either but it is irrel…

FWIW, your initial comment had two substantive and astute points. But much like the countless unsung plastic bags, you loaded it with shit.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#57

Post by coldtea »

mattnewport wrote: post #18
erentz wrote: post #7

No. Lack of universal health care and a proper social safety net resulted in the Hepatitis outbreak. Hepatitis can be prevented through vaccination, which a universal health care system would provide. Through treatment, which a universal health care system would provide. And proper sanitary conditions, which taking care of people so they don't have to live on the streets would provide.

We still get hepatitis outbreaks here in Canada despite our universal healthcare. Universal healthcare does not automatically solve the problem of getting vaccinations to vulnerable populations or prioritizing the right interventions at the right time given limited resources. Maybe our situation is better here in this regard, I don't know the statistics, but it's demonstrably false that universal healthcare automatic…

>Universal healthcare does not automatically solve the problem of getting vaccinations to vulnerable populations

A well functioning society, where people don't live like dogs in the street, does.

>or prioritizing the right interventions at the right time given limited resources.

I doubt nations that can spend billions on pet food have "limited resources" for things as insignificant budget-wise as hep vaccines.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#58

Post by coldtea »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #25
mattnewport wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still get hepatitis outbreaks here in Canada despite our universal healthcare. Universal healthcare does not automatically solve the problem of getting vaccinations to vulnerable populations or prioritizing the right interventions at the right time given limited resources. Maybe our situation is better here in this regard, I don't know the statistics, but it's demonstrably false that universal healthcare automatic…

Some people might not vaccinate their kids for dumber reasons than not having insurance.

Some people might do so if the alternative is going to jail.

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#59

Post by netsharc »

cbhl wrote: post #9
rossdavidh wrote: post #6

Does it seem to anybody else that having widely available public restrooms would be a way better (including way more hygienic) way to address this issue?

But nobody wants to build (and keep clean) a bathroom in their backyard (the for homeless people is implied). And anyone who did would have protests from their neighbors. Lava Mae addressed this by building portable showers out of old buses (to the tune of ~$1M per bus) and trailers (cheaper).

I would think hygiene should be part of the government's responsibility.. like security (police) or clean water.

But oh well, at the moment the philosophy is Make America Great Again by defunding everything...

Re: Did California plastic bag ban result in San Diego's current hepatitis outbreak?

#60

Post by otakucode »

Grumble grumble grumble... the description of Hepatitis A as a 'hardy virus' and claims "It thrives in cold temperatures and you have to heat it to 185 degrees to kill it" are idiotic and contribute to ignorance. Viruses are not alive. You can not kill a virus. You can destroy it, but it is already dead. All viruses are this way.

"It can live for months outside the body." is simply straight-up patently false. It is not alive, and unless it is somehow destroyed, it can remain infectious effectively forever. This is how viruses work. They can't move, they can't reproduce, they have no metabolism. They are not living things. They are merely a fortuitous compilation of parts that, if put in contact with a particular kind of cell, cause that cell to begin producing copies of the jumble of parts until the virus explodes.

I'm sorry, but this sort of thing bugs me to no end. We can never expect people to learn the basics of infectious disease if we actively lie to them. And no, the intent of making it 'easy to understand' by lying is no excuse. "Good intentions are the opposite of good actions."

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