Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#151

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:06 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #133

dingaling wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free Basics puts no obligation on its users to visit or use Facebook at all. They can browse Accuweather, BBC News, Bing, Wikipedia and other localised websites all day long if they please. For free.

It seems that facebook saved information also about people without a facebook account each time they visit a web displaying a sort of 'like' buttons so even if you just browse those webs you may be watched and 'classified' by facebook (without agreing with any terms of contract document with facebook).

I think you do agree to a contract when you use free basics

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#152

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:07 PM UTC

xfer wrote: post #111

donatj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand people's objections. Can you clarify? As someone who was too poor to afford internet for years, I would have adored such a deal. It would have greatly improved my standard of living, and to me I feel like the objections come from people with no understanding of what poverty is like. It really feels like looking a gift horse in the mouth; I feel like the benefits of free internet for the poor far ou…

Because browsing facebook selected sensored information is what poor people would like to do? I also grew with no internet for entirety of my childhood, but i never wished for free internet that could let me browse some social networking site.

Wouldn't this then mean, to each his own. Why should one person's preferences be imposed on others?

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#153

Post by t1o5 » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:08 PM UTC

john2x wrote: post #101

t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

Meanwhile, in the Philippines, we embraced this 'Free Basics' concept (or almost like it). All mobile data providers here provide free access to Facebook. I personally blame this as a big part of why our country's government is in its current state. With unrestricted free access to Facebook, it was exceedingly easy to spread memes/fake news about how "bad-ass and cool" Duterte is and how hilariously incompetent the o…

In India we got lucky this time that the TRAI ( Regulatory Authority ) rejected the proposal even though Mr Z personally visited PM Modi to get his support including a town hall in IIT. Facebook even employed questionable tactics to get support for this. Eventually it did not work out.

Now Google, with its Indian origin CEO is trying his hand by providing free wifi at Indian Railway stations.

Everyone now wants a chunk of a growing economy like India to convert its people to "products".

Indian authorities should be smart enough to differentiate between the good & bad things that giants like Facebook & Google can do to the country, its economy and nowadays even its stability.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#154

Post by heavenlyblue » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:08 PM UTC

thecrazyone wrote: post #148

krageon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Facebook (or for that matter Google) does is not competition. They're far too large to really compete with when you're getting up and running. Everything that even gets close to something they do or might want to do gets bought out. I can't imagine anyone thinks such a situation is in the best interest of the user.

When they buy other companies, note: 1) It's a voluntary transaction and is not compulsory 2) They precisely buy because it would be harder to build it from scratch. Which refutes your claim that Google or FB can't be competed against. edit: formatting

Please, at least one example of a social networking application where "everybody is" and which makes Facebook fear the loss of it's users.

For example, give us at least one example of a service that would directly cause Facebook to think twice before making it's app constantly harass me to update my page, minimising the videos I am trying to close, and automatically sending me push notifications for someone starting a live video?

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#155

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:10 PM UTC

justlearning123 wrote: post #100

donatj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand people's objections. Can you clarify? As someone who was too poor to afford internet for years, I would have adored such a deal. It would have greatly improved my standard of living, and to me I feel like the objections come from people with no understanding of what poverty is like. It really feels like looking a gift horse in the mouth; I feel like the benefits of free internet for the poor far ou…

A better alternative will be for the government to provide free internet to the poor (like they do with food) than companies creating walled spaces.

Wow! This would be so bad:

1) Govt will have to raise more taxes (this is a curb on freedom). Why should someone else pay for your services?

2) Bigger Govt will have political motives which will murk up the services it provides. Said another way, FB loses business if consumers don't like it, but a govt goes on because it's funded by tax dollars not customer revenue

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#156

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

parthdesai wrote: post #141

justlearning123 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better alternative will be for the government to provide free internet to the poor (like they do with food) than companies creating walled spaces.

Or, you know if facebook really cared, they should have provided 1gb for free or something like that.

I don't understand this line of reasoning usually expected of corporations. Why do they have to part with their profits which they have legitimately earned? They can but should not be required or expected to.

Why would you not fund another person's internet from your salary? Are profits that much different from salaries?

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#157

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:16 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #132

aceofspades19 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you didn't already agree to the EULA. While it's true that some EULAs are of dubious legality, I doubt a court would say that the facebook EULA is totally invalid, but a random post on facebook is legally binding.

The EULA says "Accept these conditions and if you fail to meet them, we termninate the service". The post says "I refuse these specific conditions (that were probably invalid to begin with) and if you disagree, just terminate my account."

Yeah whatever you say on your post is not considered a legal communication. The statements you post on your wall are akin to randomly shouting out statements on the street. Other parties are not expected to listening to that and taking that seriously (FB included).

It's like leaving an email in your drafts folder expecting google to read it. Or typing something into Google Search box and expecting that to be legal communication.

More info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDHDM7PfyYs

The above video makes good points even though it's been posted by college humor (not particularly meant to get your legal advice from)

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#158

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:37 PM UTC

ReverseCold wrote: post #49

t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

More context for Jio, they offered free cell phone coverage for anyone in India for a few months (LTE, great coverage everywhere, very fast) and now are offering it very cheap. I'll leave it to you to figure out how/why. :)

What's your point? Is it that they're good, bad? What is that you're claiming. You might think it's obvious, but unfortunately, your claims are not obvious from your post

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#159

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

jm6 wrote: post #122

t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

Ignorance at it's finest. Unlike the US the Indian telecom sector has cut throat competition, which is why data and call rates are at global lows. Even so they don't have the resources to connect all of India. The math doesn't add up. Facebook Basics would have provided said resources. A robotic bunch of Indians influenced by the Net Neutrality hoopla developed and targeted at Monopoly Telecom in the US blindly appli…

Well said. To be honest, I was one of those robots (influence by social media) who posted and pushed net neutrality a lot on social media. Now my stance is more free market oriented (libertarian).

I think the socialist vs democracy revolution which happened last century is happening with libertarian vs democratic ideas now. You will not see it until it hits it's peak but it's well underway.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#160

Post by thecrazyone » Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

markyuckerberg wrote: post #142

jm6 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance at it's finest. Unlike the US the Indian telecom sector has cut throat competition, which is why data and call rates are at global lows. Even so they don't have the resources to connect all of India. The math doesn't add up. Facebook Basics would have provided said resources. A robotic bunch of Indians influenced by the Net Neutrality hoopla developed and targeted at Monopoly Telecom in the US blindly appli…

So you are simultaneously saying that the cut throat competition of the telco sector is keeping the data and call rates at global lows (a good thing), and saying that we need not have the same competition when the infrastructure for rural India is built out? If competition acts the way it normally does, someone is certainly going to figure out how to connect rural India in an economically viable way and profit immens…

See the point is you don't have the right to impose your preferences on somebody else(here, rural Indians). Concretely, a rural Indian might be okay with privacy violations as long as they believe this benefit outweighs that. They if given a chance might enter into voluntary transaction with FreeBasics, you should not get to stop voluntary interactions.

Why do you get a say on what their preferences are?