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Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

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Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#111

Post by xfer »

donatj wrote: post #94
parthdesai wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free Basics and Internet.org were two of the most disgusting moves i have seen from fb. I wonder if any of Indian workers working at fb questioned zuck about it at one of the his town-hall meetings ( if it is possible to do so).

I don't understand people's objections. Can you clarify? As someone who was too poor to afford internet for years, I would have adored such a deal. It would have greatly improved my standard of living, and to me I feel like the objections come from people with no understanding of what poverty is like. It really feels like looking a gift horse in the mouth; I feel like the benefits of free internet for the poor far ou…

Because browsing facebook selected sensored information is what poor people would like to do?

I also grew with no internet for entirety of my childhood, but i never wished for free internet that could let me browse some social networking site.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#112

Post by kalleboo »

bhalp1 wrote: post #74
drawnwren wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Korea and Japan actually did this with cars. Enforcing extremely high tariffs on all imported vehicles. It seems to have worked well for their automotive Industries.

AFAIK the US also has significant tariffs on certain kinds of imported vehicles, namely pickup trucks.

I think it's a tariff on commercial vehicles in general. Which Ford worked around by shipping over "passenger cars" and then tearing out the extra seats in the US, turning them into vans http://blog.caranddriver.com/feds-watching-fords-run-around-...

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#113

Post by tryingagainbro »

drawnwren wrote: post #60
hodgesrm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are not really a valid analogy here because we're talking about services with network effects that impose behavioral norms for all users regardless of location. To use your driving example it would be like saying that to use a car everyone has to drive on the same side of the road or accept identical pollution control standards. That's obviously not the case. Cars are adapted--sometimes quite substantially--to l…

Korea and Japan actually did this with cars. Enforcing extremely high tariffs on all imported vehicles. It seems to have worked well for their automotive Industries.

Can USA wake up one day and decide to impose a 40% tariff without repercussions? Aren't there rules and international trade agreements backed by enforcement mechanisms?

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#114

Post by adventured »

tryingagainbro wrote: post #113
drawnwren wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Korea and Japan actually did this with cars. Enforcing extremely high tariffs on all imported vehicles. It seems to have worked well for their automotive Industries.

Can USA wake up one day and decide to impose a 40% tariff without repercussions? Aren't there rules and international trade agreements backed by enforcement mechanisms?

> Can USA wake up one day and decide to impose a 40% tariff without repercussions? Aren't there rules and international trade agreements backed by enforcement mechanisms?

You could debate how far the US could go with it before there are serious repercussions. However, several of the big auto-making countries go a great distance out of their way to shield their own domestic auto industries from foreign competition at home, including Germany and Japan. The US should behave exactly as they do and for exactly the same reasons.

What has the US gained by allowing foreign auto competitors such equal footing? Japan and Germany are widely regarded as having the two best auto industries overall, it has clearly has worked out just fine for them (insert the replies about correlation/causation). Why is the US held to a very different standard than China, Germany and Japan (3 of the 4 largest economies) when it comes to trade? That should and will end by necessity, whether it's a Trump or a Bernie Sanders that does it. It's a cultural wave that can't be stopped.

The US should use every lever at its disposal to compete, including strategically manipulating the global reserve currency (eg it's crazy that the US isn't running a $2 trillion, ten year, infrastructure QE program; the USD as the global reserve currency is unlikely to last more than a few more decades, we should leverage it while we have it to increase US competitiveness).

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#115

Post by krageon »

wbl wrote: post #46
Joe-Z wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To paint a less rosy picture... I think different companies, although they may be monopolies in their own right, spread out over multiple countries is still preferable to a global monopoly. Not just because of data collection, also regarding keeping tech know-how locally for example.

It really isn't. Competition globally is better for consumers. Imagine if you had to drive only US cars to keep automotive knowledge local.

What Facebook (or for that matter Google) does is not competition. They're far too large to really compete with when you're getting up and running. Everything that even gets close to something they do or might want to do gets bought out.

I can't imagine anyone thinks such a situation is in the best interest of the user.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#116

Post by ionised »

fwn wrote: post #17
bsaul wrote: post #5

Those are the kind of regulations that should help create a consensus around the utility of the european union. Giant corporation, spending tons of marketing money to make everyone think they're trying to help the world, while behaving like scammers with regards to personal data, and like white collar criminals with regard to tax should be prosecuted to death.

> The EU considers the death penalty as a cruel, inhuman and irreversible punishment which fails to act as a deterrent to criminal behaviour. http://www.eidhr.eu/highlights/death-penalty edit: Hmm, now I'm not sure whether you meant a companies metaphorical death? ..I'll leave it here anyhow. :)

I don't think he meant it literally.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#117

Post by ionised »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #50
tomp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast to humans, who have the right to live, companies have the privilege to exist.

In contrast to humans, who have the right to live, companies have the privilege to exist. I agree with your sentiment, but I consider being alive the greatest privilege.

privilege implies that someone has the right to take it away

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#118

Post by ionised »

Mahn wrote: post #2

I don't have anything against regulations and fines to keep monopolistic companies in check, but that being said, as an European, I can't help but feel a little appalled that there's so much focus on this and so little on actually creating European Googles and Facebooks.

I'm not really interested in a European version of those companies.

How would that be any better?

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#119

Post by minusSeven »

t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

In other words there should be crystal clear regulations that says what Monopolies(and even normal companies) can and cannot do. The problem is having those regulations in most countries can become a bureaucratic nightmare.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#120

Post by return0 »

kbart wrote: post #108
return0 wrote: post #76

Facebook could just ask its users "Do you agree to be tracked, even without your consent?" and they 'd still say yes. If it mattered, people would have switched to one of the open source alternatives. This fine serves more as governmental virtue signaling than anything else.

It's illegal in EU to get a broad consent (aka "we will track you anytime, collect any data we like and do with it as we please"). EULA must state exactly what data is collected and how it will be used, also it must be retractable. You can joke as much as you like about "cookie law", but other privacy laws in EU quite formidable (probably the best in current world anyway). And they will be even stricter soon, as GDPR…

and soon europeans will seek VPNs to access a banned facebook? I mean i fail to see how the cookie law has affected the broader internet in a positive way.
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