Earlier quoted context omitted.
That explains the $12k referral bonus here https://www.ref10.com/
Nowhere near enough.
It should be higher?
Software Engineer, Machine Learning
41–50 of 66 posts
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is my industry. I don't want to companies to start expecting a minimum of 70 hours of work for 40 hours of pay. Until they start adding "one-and-a-half compensation for overtime" to these job, I will always see this as a thinly veiled attempt to extract free labor from their employees without paying for it. Companies openly engaging in that kind of behavior worries me, and unless you own a business, it should wo…
This isn't a job you take for the pay. You ask for enough money that you no longer care about it (e.g. you just throw money at problems. If your car won't start, call a towtruck and a cab to get to work). You can't do this kind of work motivated by money. You have to love the idea.
someone taking this job for $150,000 while working 70 hours a week is helping to depress wages across the entire industry.
I don't care how much I love the work, I get paid the value of my labor or I walk. If that means $800,000 year for 80 hours a week, that's what it takes. There are very few cases I would ever take less compensation then I think my time is worth, even for a job I would love. To me, its a matter of self-respect.
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd need to be convinced that they had a really interesting problem, one that would keep me awake at night. I'd also need to be convinced they understand the idea that "anything we can solve by throwing money at the problem isn't a real problem". Real problems can't be solved by money and problems that can be solved by money aren't real. You'll find at a job that a 70% productive day is outstanding. Time not lost to…
Andrew Ng mentions in the job posting that they want dirty work as well as design work to be done. "Since we're an early stage company, you should be flexible in your tasks and do whatever is needed, ranging from dirty work like data cleaning, to high-level work like algorithm design."
Can you hire temp work to do data cleaning? (Aka, solve it with money? with mechanical turk?). If so, don't waste my time. If the data cleaning requires judgement then that's fine. Every job has dog work. I have to chase references for the papers I read which takes days of effort. But doing it right (aka "providing quality") is important here. Quality matters.
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
so people are being rewarded for sending their friends to work long hours?
A lot of people voluntarily work for long hours, especially in tech/research and especially if they like what they're working on
I've never met anyone who voluntarily enjoys working 70-90 hours a week.
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#45Since the job description includes 70-80 hours I expect that they are paying more. It would be normal to assume a 70/40 or 80/40 pay rate, that is, about twice the normal rate for a leading edge programmer. So, base salary should probably start north of $500,000 per year. And those hours will require working both at work and at home so you should expect a fully funded home-office and half-coverage of your rent. I'm w…
Is that even legal to demand a 70+ hour 'work ethic'?
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of people voluntarily work for long hours, especially in tech/research and especially if they like what they're working on
I've never met anyone who voluntarily enjoys working 70-90 hours a week.
I've met several people who work even more than that
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#47why don't they just hire 2 persons instead of 1 and split the work?
let's put an end to this toxic behavior from companies. working 70+ hours per week doesn't make you a better employee or the world a better place.
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
My guess is this is being called out because it's symptomatic of a toxic valley culture that clearly values workaholism, to the detriment of people's mental and physical health. Couple that with a broader obsession in the US corporate workplace for increased productivity at all costs, and I can see why people would see this as beyond the pale. So, yes, taken as a single point, you're right, simply don't apply. As par…
Working these hours at Google would be stupidity. But startups are different. I've worked for a few. You basically sell your soul to try to make it succeed. If you love the idea the work hours are not the issue. Things go sour when the startup is being sold. Then everyone discovers that only a few people will make money off the effort and you get to watch. It gets toxic quickly.
The problem isn't that people should be forbidden from working hard on something they are passionate about. Its simply that it shouldn't be the norm. And also: that kind of work should be compensated appropriately. From your comments it seems like that is not usually the case for startups.
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've never met anyone who voluntarily enjoys working 70-90 hours a week.
I've met several people who work even more than that
This can only last a short while. In time you would have sufficiently damaged their health and wellbeing that they will stop it and curse you for it. But what do you care.
Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning
#50It's 70+ hrs of working "AND LEARNING".
I'm not sure what the mean by that, or if that was added later, but the "learning" part looks like a reasonable amount of effort for those who are in this field with only 3 to 5 yrs of experience.