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Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

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Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#121

Post by NicoJuicy »

ashark wrote: post #120
NicoJuicy wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One site ( a non profit, where donators also complain about how much money they spend on servers and wages), can't be a reference for an online business. The chance to duplicate this is minimal + it has thousands of free employees / volunteers that don't need to be paid. The change, cookies can't track users. Will probably be a loss of ad revenue per user, more companies that will have paid subscriptions and a lot of…

> One site ( a non profit, where donators also complain about how much money they spend on servers and wages), can't be a reference for an online business. The chance to duplicate this is minimal + it has thousands of free employees / volunteers that don't need to be paid. It was one example, not every single free thing on the Internet that I find highly valuable. Open source would be another, which is mostly support…

> It was one example, not every single free thing on the Internet that I find highly valuable. Open source would be another, which is mostly supported by volunteers and straight-up paying customers

Paying customers receive more value in most cases, it's not the same content. A good reference is a paywall in this case. I love open source, but how many people get a wage out of it? You only see success stories here and not that much I'm afraid.

+ I don't know any newspaper online that earns money without ads or subscriptions. For now, there are only 2 business models and currently subscriptions gain importance -> paywalls

>if no one can use spying ads anymore, that'll mean the end of online media? Or even just online news?

My guess is more paywall. Interesting articles will be found less on HN

>I'd not be a bit surprised if eliminating tracking gave bigger players enough of an advantage that those days came back.

Not sure if I agree. You mean that, people will have to choose for paying for subscriptions, so the best quality articles after a paywall will get the money by creating better articles. But it leaves less space for everyone else. I'm not sure if that is a good thing, but I understand the reasoning

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#122

Post by FridgeSeal »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #114
olliej wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't block advertising, it specifically blocks the cookies used to track users, even then it doesn't completely block them, it just partitions them off such that you can't correlate between multiple sites, and introduces a shorter time out so that an advertiser can't remember you for longer than is reasonable. People aren't unhappy that ads exist, they are unhappy that ads (and ad networks in general) run rou…

Good arguments. None the less, i think it's usefull to know the age, sex and interests of readers ( small client websites with some blogs). Religion, political affiliation, your living arrangements, your relationship with your family, ... are none of the concern. But i'm not sure that people are unhappy that ads are there. They just don't want to see them, without knowing why they are there or that it's privacy relat…

I work in advertising.

I've even worked literally trafficking ads.

Targeting any more specific than a good contextual match is usually a waste and not any more effective. Advertisers do not need this information and should not be given it. The agreement is that they show an ad in return for you seeing the page, that does not (and should not) mean that they get access to any more information than is absolutely necessary to display said ad.

If I go onto a site about bikes, I expect to see bike ads. If I go on a tech/programming site, I expect to see tech/programming ads. I don't like going somewhere and seeing random ads for something unrelated to where I am because some advertiser thought I might like Caribbean holidays or something. The solution is not to give them more of your information just so they can "serve you a better ad" (a trade that they benefit off far more than you do), the solution is for them to advertise contextually.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#124

Post by abiox »

oliwarner wrote: post #72
astrodust wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't trust the OS without all the code. Can't trust the code if you can't trust the compiler. Can't trust the compiler if you can't trust the CPU. Can't trust the CPU if you can't trust the microcode. Can't trust the microcode unless you've visually inspected the die. You can't win. Make compromises that are reasonable.

> Make compromises that are reasonable. When it's so easy to use a community-vetted Linux distribution, I think "reasonable" gets shunted down a layer. It's not all or nothing. Every reasonable step counts.

> community-vetted

i wonder if this sort of confidence makes you less-safe. something like this should've prevented heartbleed, in theory, right?

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#125

Post by abiox »

dredmorbius wrote: post #107
astrodust wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't trust the OS without all the code. Can't trust the code if you can't trust the compiler. Can't trust the compiler if you can't trust the CPU. Can't trust the CPU if you can't trust the microcode. Can't trust the microcode unless you've visually inspected the die. You can't win. Make compromises that are reasonable.

Cross-compiling and multi-device compiles are a thing.

i feel like this is just shuffling concerns rather than addressing them, but i'm open to being shown otherwise.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#126

Post by ashark »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #121
ashark wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One site ( a non profit, where donators also complain about how much money they spend on servers and wages), can't be a reference for an online business. The chance to duplicate this is minimal + it has thousands of free employees / volunteers that don't need to be paid. It was one example, not every single free thing on the Internet that I find highly valuable. Open source would be another, which is mostly support…

> It was one example, not every single free thing on the Internet that I find highly valuable. Open source would be another, which is mostly supported by volunteers and straight-up paying customers Paying customers receive more value in most cases, it's not the same content. A good reference is a paywall in this case. I love open source, but how many people get a wage out of it? You only see success stories here and…

> Not sure if I agree. You mean that, people will have to choose for paying for subscriptions, so the best quality articles after a paywall will get the money by creating better articles. But it leaves less space for everyone else. I'm not sure if that is a good thing, but I understand the reasoning

No. Again, paying for subscriptions would not be the only option. Internet advertising would still exist without tracking. It'd just be harder to sell as a small-time operator. Winners in a no-tracking world: large, trustworthy sites. Losers: ad networks/spying companies, small ad-supported sites.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#127

Post by scarface74 »

msla wrote: post #53
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

I wonder if Apple is protecting its customers from everyone except Apple. I really can't trust any closed-source OS, and very few closed-source applications.

So have you personally vetted all of your open source software personally going through every line of code?

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#128

Post by scarface74 »

oliwarner wrote: post #72
astrodust wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't trust the OS without all the code. Can't trust the code if you can't trust the compiler. Can't trust the compiler if you can't trust the CPU. Can't trust the CPU if you can't trust the microcode. Can't trust the microcode unless you've visually inspected the die. You can't win. Make compromises that are reasonable.

> Make compromises that are reasonable. When it's so easy to use a community-vetted Linux distribution, I think "reasonable" gets shunted down a layer. It's not all or nothing. Every reasonable step counts.

"Community-vetting" didn't stop the HeartBleed bug to linger for over a year.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#129

Post by CodeWriter23 »

tim333 wrote: post #108
QAPereo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been PC since DOS, and I've switched too. Who the hell wants to be treated like a cross between a product to be monetized, and an enemy to be spied on?!

I have to say I was a little put off by the feeling with Windows 10 that rather than my computer being a machine that follows my instructions, it had become one that Microsoft controls over the internet and maybe does what I ask it if that doesn't annoy Microsoft. I downgraded that one back to 7 and mostly use OSX.

Going back to Windows 7 on my Windows drive I only used for Steam games that don't have a Mac version. Fuck Microsoft with their deadline for a "free" upgrade turned date rape and switch.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#130

Post by dredmorbius »

abiox wrote: post #125
dredmorbius wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cross-compiling and multi-device compiles are a thing.

i feel like this is just shuffling concerns rather than addressing them, but i'm open to being shown otherwise.

Suppose you suspect compiler A or CPU X.

Recompile on compilers B and C and compare results. Or on CPUs Y and Z.

In reality, there will almost certainly be differences (different compiling algos, different CPU instruction sets), but if you can pinpoint behavioural distinctions or encoding distinctions which are not explained by known compile or instruction-set distinctions, well, you've got something interesting to explore.

The point being that you don't have to descend the entire stack of turtles. Just compare different stacks of turtles.

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