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Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

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Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#101

Post by ashark »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #96
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

So how would websites earn money? Is everyone going to pay 3$ / month every website? Apple should have fixed that first, but is now blocking everyone because their own iAd failed. I think a lot is going to blow up, eg. Apple users requiring membership for websites + a subscription. What if those companies suddenly require an email to read more content, then their backend syncs all the required data. ( yes, we will su…

> So how would websites earn money?

There's so much good content that I just don't care if the ad-supported stuff dies. In its absence, free community-driven sites will have a reason to exist and paid options will stand a fighting chance. Maybe magazine-style non-tracking ads will be viable again. Anything that doesn't make the transition to one of those models doesn't matter to me—I don't have anywhere near enough time for it all as it is.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#102

Post by olliej »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #96
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

So how would websites earn money? Is everyone going to pay 3$ / month every website? Apple should have fixed that first, but is now blocking everyone because their own iAd failed. I think a lot is going to blow up, eg. Apple users requiring membership for websites + a subscription. What if those companies suddenly require an email to read more content, then their backend syncs all the required data. ( yes, we will su…

This doesn't block advertising, it specifically blocks the cookies used to track users, even then it doesn't completely block them, it just partitions them off such that you can't correlate between multiple sites, and introduces a shorter time out so that an advertiser can't remember you for longer than is reasonable.

People aren't unhappy that ads exist, they are unhappy that ads (and ad networks in general) run rough trod over their privacy, and track them everywhere that they go.

Unless you believe that ads /only/ work if the advertiser knows your age, sex, religion, political affiliation, your living arrangements, your relationship with your family, ....

I would argue that the current obsession with tracking users has not only violate our privacy but also made the ads worse. e.g.

I once bought a washing machine over the internet. For about 6 months I continued to get ads offering me deals to apparently help me expand my new washing machine collection. It didn't matter what I was looking at, the sum total of what they got from all of the information they collected is that while looking at books I was secretly yearning for more washing machines.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#103

Post by [deleted] »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #96
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

So how would websites earn money? Is everyone going to pay 3$ / month every website? Apple should have fixed that first, but is now blocking everyone because their own iAd failed. I think a lot is going to blow up, eg. Apple users requiring membership for websites + a subscription. What if those companies suddenly require an email to read more content, then their backend syncs all the required data. ( yes, we will su…

[deleted]

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#104

Post by NicoJuicy »

ashark wrote: post #101
NicoJuicy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how would websites earn money? Is everyone going to pay 3$ / month every website? Apple should have fixed that first, but is now blocking everyone because their own iAd failed. I think a lot is going to blow up, eg. Apple users requiring membership for websites + a subscription. What if those companies suddenly require an email to read more content, then their backend syncs all the required data. ( yes, we will su…

> So how would websites earn money? There's so much good content that I just don't care if the ad-supported stuff dies. In its absence, free community-driven sites will have a reason to exist and paid options will stand a fighting chance. Maybe magazine-style non-tracking ads will be viable again. Anything that doesn't make the transition to one of those models doesn't matter to me—I don't have anywhere near enough t…

If i currently look at the frontpage of HN i see bloomberg, tomshardware, nytimes, nextplatform, theconversation, washingtonpost, ... That's only the 10 first articles.

All of these are ad-supported for the content. I think most people don't have a correct interpretation of what it is to have money to pay journalists for articles and then get paid for content through ads, because 99,9% of the people won't pay a subscription.

Fyi, the public content is paid by ads right now and most of them have a digital-subscription on the side.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#105

Post by mikestew »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #96
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

So how would websites earn money? Is everyone going to pay 3$ / month every website? Apple should have fixed that first, but is now blocking everyone because their own iAd failed. I think a lot is going to blow up, eg. Apple users requiring membership for websites + a subscription. What if those companies suddenly require an email to read more content, then their backend syncs all the required data. ( yes, we will su…

Most of HN is probably too young to remember the old brokerage ad, but websites can earn money the old-fashioned way: they EARN it. And there are plenty of websites that earn my money: NYT, The Economist, some music-related websites, a podcast or two. Whatever shall I do should, say, Buzzfeed go away? Probably make more productive use of my time. I mean let's face it, if a web page has stuff from Taboola at the bottom, you're probably reading the equivalent of ice cream for breakfast: make it a little dirty little secret, but for $DEITY's sake don't make a habit of it. (And that was a general example, Captain Pedantic; don't bother with the two examples on the entire internet that don't fit that description.) If it turns out as you say, and I have to buy a subscription to access a site, I'll do it if I find the content valuable. Odds are, though, it'll turn out like the sites that want me to turn off my ad blocker: I'll decide the content isn't that important and just close the tab.

So, in summary, I'll repeat the ad blocker discussion: I don't care if a lot of sites that depend on ad revenue go under. I've done just fine without network TV and cable for the last ten years, I'll do alright if I don't get the latest from OutBrain.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#106

Post by manicdee »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #96
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

So how would websites earn money? Is everyone going to pay 3$ / month every website? Apple should have fixed that first, but is now blocking everyone because their own iAd failed. I think a lot is going to blow up, eg. Apple users requiring membership for websites + a subscription. What if those companies suddenly require an email to read more content, then their backend syncs all the required data. ( yes, we will su…

If you want to earn money through advertising, use ad networks which do not deliver malware, do not track users' every move, and do not attempt to build dossiers about users in order to trade in a secondsry market the users never consented to.

The Deck was a great option while it lasted.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#107

Post by dredmorbius »

astrodust wrote: post #69
msla wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I can build and install a completely custom version, it isn't open enough to be safe.

Can't trust the OS without all the code. Can't trust the code if you can't trust the compiler. Can't trust the compiler if you can't trust the CPU. Can't trust the CPU if you can't trust the microcode. Can't trust the microcode unless you've visually inspected the die. You can't win. Make compromises that are reasonable.

Cross-compiling and multi-device compiles are a thing.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#108

Post by tim333 »

QAPereo wrote: post #35
submeta wrote: post #31

> When Apple first announced the limitations to cross-website tracking in June, the company said the changes are meant to improve trust with users, explaining that “users feel that trust is broken when they are being tracked and privacy-sensitive data about their web activity is acquired for purposes that they never agreed to.” This! I switched from Windows+Android to the Apple ecosystem in 2015. Because I love so ma…

I've been PC since DOS, and I've switched too. Who the hell wants to be treated like a cross between a product to be monetized, and an enemy to be spied on?!

I have to say I was a little put off by the feeling with Windows 10 that rather than my computer being a machine that follows my instructions, it had become one that Microsoft controls over the internet and maybe does what I ask it if that doesn't annoy Microsoft. I downgraded that one back to 7 and mostly use OSX.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#109

Post by ashark »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #104
ashark wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how would websites earn money? There's so much good content that I just don't care if the ad-supported stuff dies. In its absence, free community-driven sites will have a reason to exist and paid options will stand a fighting chance. Maybe magazine-style non-tracking ads will be viable again. Anything that doesn't make the transition to one of those models doesn't matter to me—I don't have anywhere near enough t…

If i currently look at the frontpage of HN i see bloomberg, tomshardware, nytimes, nextplatform, theconversation, washingtonpost, ... That's only the 10 first articles. All of these are ad-supported for the content. I think most people don't have a correct interpretation of what it is to have money to pay journalists for articles and then get paid for content through ads, because 99,9% of the people won't pay a subsc…

Removing spying ads for everyone changes the entire landscape, though. What if spying ads weren't an option? Print versions of many of these get by with non-tracking ads (well, subscribers are a little, but nothing like web tracking) and have basically forever. Absent spying ads, they'll adopt non-spying ads, or charge money. Or somehow not find a way to make that work even though it did before spying ads were a thing, and die. It'll be fine. We didn't have spying Internet ads not-that-long-ago and things were fine. All the stuff I actually need from the Internet is already totally free (Wikipedia) or supported by paying customers.

Re: Every Major Advertising Group Is Blasting Apple for Blocking Cookies in Safari

#110

Post by FabHK »

proofofstake wrote: post #86
mikestew wrote: post #27

Were there a publicly-traded company that manufactures small violins (preferably the one that makes "world's smallest"), I'd go long on their stock right now. I mean, who do they expect to persuade with this? Is there anyone not tied to the adtech industry shouting, "Damn you, Apple, and your assault on open web standards!" 'cuz me, I'm thinking, "without even reading the article, if the ad industry is upset about it…

The end result for the customer is that the ad industry will switch to cross-device tracking for everyone. Right now, you had an option to opt-out, by setting cookies to block. You were relatively safe. Now the default will become a net of machine learning algorithms which can track you cross-device without requiring cookies. It is not possible to safeguard against that, unless you completely randomize your online br…

Interesting point: If the despicable ad industry "ups their game", it might get harder to evade.

What techniques exist in that space? Anything beyond browser footprints ( https://panopticlick.eff.org ) and super cookies?

Any reasonably realistic suggestions for evading tracking in that scenario?

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