Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 101 posts

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#61

Post by gcb0 »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #55
Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

If Snowden hadn't revealed this, the sales of technology products would probably not have slowed down. So, they are not wrong.

he's pointing out the semiotics used by the chosen wording.

it's no accident and it puts unnecessary emphasis on the mensager.

obviously it can be parsed to the correct meaning. but the subjective one should be considered too.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#62

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

mmjaa wrote: post #33
jasonmaydie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries spy. In fact it is imperative that they do

Wake me up when Austrian malware causes a total collapse of key infrastructure projects in a developing nation that didn't deserve it...

Austrian foreign policy only helped bring about a world war.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#63

Post by slamdance »

mmjaa wrote: post #56
slamdance wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the word "deserve" is very subjective... who gets to decide who is "deserving"?

Hopefully, the democratic public. Realistically though, authoritarian power brokers.

I apologize for the rabbit hole. But I must ask: the "democratic public" of North Korea? or just "mob rule" in general? the "authoritarian power brokers" of the US? or Russia (i.e. Ukraine, Odessa, etc...)?, China (i.e. India, Tibet, Myanmar vs. Rohingyas, etc...)?

The line has to be drawn somewhere. The UN has proven to be quite useless.

Edit - Link Added: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/china-endorses-myanmars...

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#64

Post by pyrale »

meri_dian wrote: post #37
mmjaa wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has a policy of not invading local countries, because they're too close to home. So, its mostly power projection "fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them .. here". Really, this is a fundamental issue to understand. USA is not a peace-bringing nation - it is a war-projection nation. In the same way that one can use fire to fight fires, the USA thinks its war-making is actually bringing peace t…

The wars the US has involved itself in post-WW2 have almost always been wars with the aim of: 1. Preventing the spread of Soviet backed Authoritarian Communism. 2. Removing brutal dictators from power. Both noble and justifiable goals.

Can you define "almost" more clearly ?

I'm not going to judge the people that did it, bceause it was another time, but I hope the US public opinion has evolved so that some of US antics in that period could not happen now.

e.g.: involvement in the fall of Mossadegh, support to the Pinochet regime, support to the Shaddam regime, including the sale of chemical weapons during the Iran-Irak war, support to the contras...

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#65

Post by [deleted] »

meri_dian wrote: post #37
mmjaa wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has a policy of not invading local countries, because they're too close to home. So, its mostly power projection "fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them .. here". Really, this is a fundamental issue to understand. USA is not a peace-bringing nation - it is a war-projection nation. In the same way that one can use fire to fight fires, the USA thinks its war-making is actually bringing peace t…

The wars the US has involved itself in post-WW2 have almost always been wars with the aim of: 1. Preventing the spread of Soviet backed Authoritarian Communism. 2. Removing brutal dictators from power. Both noble and justifiable goals.

[deleted]

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#66

Post by DonHopkins »

zimpenfish wrote: post #19
meri_dian wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time the US invaded a "neighboring" country?

Panama (1989) was an invasion with troops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Pana...

Operation Just Cause (we felt like it)

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#67

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #49
taf2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

This is not what happened at all.

In eastern Ukraine and Crimea, that is almost exactly what happened.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#68

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mmjaa wrote: post #57
josephjrobison wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan Germany South Korea Every Western nation supported by the Marshall plan You're right, but it goes both ways and not 100% one way or the other

Yeah, the USA did do some good for the world. 80 years ago. But what it is doing today is a terrible, atrocious tragedy, and its far beyond the point where the means justify the ends. I mean that as someone who follows closely the cost of American warfare, and as someone who refuses to ignore the human tragedy it is bringing to current generations of people who really, really do not deserve to have had their infrastr…

The problem is, we wanted to do Iraq and Afghanistan and get out. If we had done a Marshall Plan in Iraq, we would have had maybe 100,000 troops there for a decade, but it would have been stable when we left.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#69

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #60
Sommersonn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice twisted rhetoric, really. For a split second I did believed you, that Russia haven't invaded Ukraine, it merely 'protected it's local territory'.

You might want to brush up on your history, mainly the part where the Ukraine has been part of Russian territory for most of the last 350 years, and while you're reading maybe you'll discover the reason Russia had to act with regards to Crimea.

Had to? No. Chose to.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#70

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mmjaa wrote: post #59
fhood wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand? What are you talking about? Iraq was not mentioned in the original comment. Also, this "The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery." is grossly untrue. Neither country is free of fault here, but for every Afghanistan, or Iraq, there is a…

The point is, Russian military action in Ukraine was for the purpose of protecting its sovereign borders and access to the Black Sea. While I agree that it was a heinous action, it is more justifiable than any military action the USA has projected, if but for the simple fact that it was close to home - literally on Russias' doorstep. America, however, projects power around the globe - not for its own protection of so…

"Protecting its sovereign borders" by stealing from others' sovereign borders? Sorry, not buying it.
Post reply on HN