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Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

reuters.com

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Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#51

Post by honestoHeminway »

zimpenfish wrote: post #15
jasonmaydie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same power that has kept the world peace for the last 50 years? How is that a bad thing?

> world peace for the last 50 years I think you might have a different definition of "peace" than many people because we haven't had "world peace" for 50 years at all . Just look at how many conflicts are currently ongoing in the world (and how many of those are caused by US meddling...)

Actually.. if you look at the "We-are-not-involved"-strategy obama tryied- im not so sure, the world would be much peacefuller without the US. Those saudi-iran proxi wars - the various religious conflicts- they would all continu, if the US vannished today.

Im not so sure if UN Involvement is really helpfull either. I start to see the seperation solution that pakistan and india drove as quite a good solution for the meddle-east.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#52

Post by josephjrobison »

mmjaa wrote: post #43
batushka wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually it's a salvation to be occupied by US compared to Russia - they just kill, steal and trash territory making it doomed (Transnistria, Osetia, Ukraine teritories, Kuril islands) - a true Mordor.

So .. where is all that good ol' American-supported living in .. Libya? Syria? Iraq? Afghanistan? Cambodia? Pakistan? Yemen? Nigeria?

Japan

Germany

South Korea

Every Western nation supported by the Marshall plan

You're right, but it goes both ways and not 100% one way or the other

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#53

Post by slamdance »

mmjaa wrote: post #33
jasonmaydie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries spy. In fact it is imperative that they do

Wake me up when Austrian malware causes a total collapse of key infrastructure projects in a developing nation that didn't deserve it...

the word "deserve" is very subjective... who gets to decide who is "deserving"?

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#54

Post by fhood »

mmjaa wrote: post #47
Sommersonn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice twisted rhetoric, really. For a split second I did believed you, that Russia haven't invaded Ukraine, it merely 'protected it's local territory'.

What part of "Russia needs the Black Sea to protect its sovereignty" do you not understand? What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand? I'm not trying to justify Russia's military action in Ukraine - living quite close to this action, it horrified me. But, on the other hand, I'm not ever going to be compelled to agree with someone who says that the…

> What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand?

What are you talking about? Iraq was not mentioned in the original comment.

Also, this "The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery." is grossly untrue. Neither country is free of fault here, but for every Afghanistan, or Iraq, there is a North Korea or East Germany.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#55

Post by anotherbrownguy »

Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

If Snowden hadn't revealed this, the sales of technology products would probably not have slowed down. So, they are not wrong.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#56

Post by mmjaa »

slamdance wrote: post #53
mmjaa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wake me up when Austrian malware causes a total collapse of key infrastructure projects in a developing nation that didn't deserve it...

the word "deserve" is very subjective... who gets to decide who is "deserving"?

Hopefully, the democratic public.

Realistically though, authoritarian power brokers.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#57

Post by mmjaa »

josephjrobison wrote: post #52
mmjaa wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So .. where is all that good ol' American-supported living in .. Libya? Syria? Iraq? Afghanistan? Cambodia? Pakistan? Yemen? Nigeria?

Japan Germany South Korea Every Western nation supported by the Marshall plan You're right, but it goes both ways and not 100% one way or the other

Yeah, the USA did do some good for the world. 80 years ago.

But what it is doing today is a terrible, atrocious tragedy, and its far beyond the point where the means justify the ends.

I mean that as someone who follows closely the cost of American warfare, and as someone who refuses to ignore the human tragedy it is bringing to current generations of people who really, really do not deserve to have had their infrastructure utterly destroyed, their lives ruined, their children left in rubble, on a daily basis, because some smart American decided it had to be so.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#58

Post by anotherbrownguy »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #3

It's amazing to me that Russian espionage has been able to turn Western media against itself. Russia, China and every other advanced nation do the same things to the limits of their capability. Russia, in particular, killed a bunch of journalists over domestic intelligence operations, though. But people just eat up the stories about the US uncritically.

And CIA under Obama administration killed Andrew Breitbart when he started talking about Podesta's closet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgBvPx4CvhI). But of course he died of a "heart attack" just like Russian journalists seem to do.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#59

Post by mmjaa »

fhood wrote: post #54
mmjaa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "Russia needs the Black Sea to protect its sovereignty" do you not understand? What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand? I'm not trying to justify Russia's military action in Ukraine - living quite close to this action, it horrified me. But, on the other hand, I'm not ever going to be compelled to agree with someone who says that the…

> What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand? What are you talking about? Iraq was not mentioned in the original comment. Also, this "The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery." is grossly untrue. Neither country is free of fault here, but for every Afghanistan, or Iraq, there is a…

The point is, Russian military action in Ukraine was for the purpose of protecting its sovereign borders and access to the Black Sea. While I agree that it was a heinous action, it is more justifiable than any military action the USA has projected, if but for the simple fact that it was close to home - literally on Russias' doorstep.

America, however, projects power around the globe - not for its own protection of sovereign assets, and certainly not as a consequence of needing to defend its sovereign border. Rather, American power projection is done in order to interfere with nations that the USA has decided, for some other reason, mostly psychology, is its enemy.

>"The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery." is grossly untrue.

Sorry, but a lot of the world see it as being very, very true.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the refugee children walking across Europe to get away from American wars.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#60

Post by ZoeZoeBee »

Sommersonn wrote: post #46
mmjaa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is not invading and destroying foreign sovereign nations around the world. It is protecting its borders and its local territory. The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery. Its not a duality - but if you want to be honest about the hostile intentions of nations, you have to look at the most hostile state there is: the USA. The stats are not pr…

Nice twisted rhetoric, really. For a split second I did believed you, that Russia haven't invaded Ukraine, it merely 'protected it's local territory'.

You might want to brush up on your history, mainly the part where the Ukraine has been part of Russian territory for most of the last 350 years, and while you're reading maybe you'll discover the reason Russia had to act with regards to Crimea.
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