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What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

fivethirtyeight.com

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Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#151

Post by GatorD42 »

tptacek wrote: post #118
wjn0 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article doesn't support your point. The law being referenced here is the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986, signed into law 8 years earlier by Reagan [1]. You are correct, though. The Black Congressional Congress and the majority of black congressmen at the time supported the ADAA, even helping draft it. But, I still think that it would be wrong to assume that there was universal (or even majority) support among the b…

It's useful to remember the ADAA in the broader context of the 1980s push towards harsher federal sentencing across the board. It's not a coincidence that federal sentences were revised and federal parole abolished just a few years prior, or that the Willie Horton ad would run in the next Presidential election. It's true that there was mainstream black support for anti-crime legislation, but that support wasn't disti…

I see many of these discussions that focus on federal sentencing laws without considering that state laws and enforcement practices are far more important. State laws are varied and complicated - some states are far harsher than others. Yes the federal laws are and were unfair and stupid, but the large majority of prisoners and drug offenders are in state prisons.

John Pfaff has been on a lot of podcasts, he is the most insightful person on criminal justice that I have found. Surprisingly Vox has a good summary of his book.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/30/15591700/m...

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#152

Post by betenoire »

curun1r wrote: post #138
betenoire wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not helpful at all. Yes, addiction is "filling" "something" "broken". Now what?

You focus on the actual problem rather than the previous false causes of addiction. In the past, we've blamed the addict's moral character and will power and, more recently, we've tried to look at addiction through a purely physiological lens where we believed we only needed to break the dependence. Guess what happened...most people relapsed or fell into some other self-destructive behavior. Human beings are just not…

Right. I get that and agree. The article is about the effective way to actually help with heroin addiction. The comment I replied to said, "An addiction tries to replace a void in someone's life. Chances are big the environment of the addicted played a role in cerating[sic] the void."

"Chances are" he's identified a vague cause? I'm not saying he's wrong, but that it doesn't help an addict to point that out. And again, the article is all about effectively helping the addict.

I don't think we disagree except for in the intent of my original comment.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#153

Post by warcher »

Fun fact: The current standard within the US is AA/NA.

AA and NA are not only wholly unscientific, being invented of whole cloth by a layperson in the early 20th century (for context, lobotomy was a totally accepted psychological treatment for decades after 1935). There was no science whatsoever involved in AA, and indeed Alcoholics Anonymous actively resists any data collection about the efficacy of its techniques whatsoever.

It's main advantages from a US perspective are a) it's free. The costs are borne mostly in the form of churches providing basements and meeting rooms. and b) it's super churchy. We love churchy stuff around here.

So basically we kicked addiction under the rug for the entire 20th century in favor of religious hokum that refuses any objective evaluation of its efficacy, or changing its methods.

I should say, for the record, that there's a lot of people that have been helped by AA and NA, and there's indisputably good work being done there. But it's not perfect and categorically refuses to get better, and its longevity is IMHO more a result of our collective refusal to take the problem of addiction seriously in the US than anything else.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#154

Post by javajosh »

betenoire wrote: post #131
javajosh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you address the environmental factors that created the void in the first place, such that the drugs are no longer desirable. See: Rat Park. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park Also, downvoted for needlessly confrontational pedantry.

I'm sorry you felt I was being confrontational. But I stand by it. Telling someone there is a reason for what they are going through, then saying, "now find it and fix it" is NOT helpful. I sincerely believe that anyone that thinks pointing out the obvious to an addict will help has not actually done it. And I consider "It's something in your environment" to be obvious, true, and totally not actionable. Furthermore,…

I didn't say any of that, addressing the context in which people become addicted is actionable and valuable, and I'm bowing out of this conversation.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#155

Post by evincarofautumn »

otakucode wrote: post #27

Great article, but if your loved one has an opioid addiction and wants to quit without suffering the devastating withdrawal, I would strongly recommend investigating kratom. It is a non-opiate tree which grows primarily in Thailand and similar regions. It contains an alkaloid called mitragynine. This alkaloid is a selective opioid receptor agonist. Specifically, research shows that it is an agonist to several opioid…

I’ll chime in anecdotally in favour of kratom as well. It has helped save multiple people I know from opiate addiction, and has helped me and others I know with chronic pain, anxiety, and perhaps most importantly, avoiding alcohol abuse.

It’s not a wonder-drug, and it needs to be respected and taken in moderation because it is habit-forming. But I believe that it’s one of the best underused tools we have for helping victims of addiction.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#156

Post by betenoire »

zaroth wrote: post #80
ubernostrum wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never mind people who get addicted after being prescribed medication for an injury, then? Never mind that the new generations of opioids were marketed as safer/less addicting when they probably were more addicting, and thus prescribed even more out of perception of their safety?

Althogh this has certainly become the narrative of late, TFA seems to discount this fairly strongly; "To that point, pain treatment is not the most significant risk factor for addiction. Far greater risk comes from simply being young and from using alcohol and other recreational drugs heavily. Ninety percent of all drug addictions start in the teens — and 75 percent of prescription opioid misuse begins when (mainly y…

And whether or not it is the most, least, or somewhere in the middle, risk factor, makes no difference in treatment. The article is about effective treatment for that addict and TFA suggests medication. It does not suggest addressing addiction issues, except as mean to getting the addict into actual treatment.

Filling voids and seeking happiness aren't mentioned in TFA.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#157

Post by rajacombinator »

warcher wrote: post #153

Fun fact: The current standard within the US is AA/NA. AA and NA are not only wholly unscientific, being invented of whole cloth by a layperson in the early 20th century (for context, lobotomy was a totally accepted psychological treatment for decades after 1935). There was no science whatsoever involved in AA, and indeed Alcoholics Anonymous actively resists any data collection about the efficacy of its techniques w…

Got any better suggestions? Genuinely interested, not sarcasm. (Mostly.)

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#158

Post by kirse »

warcher wrote: post #153

Fun fact: The current standard within the US is AA/NA. AA and NA are not only wholly unscientific, being invented of whole cloth by a layperson in the early 20th century (for context, lobotomy was a totally accepted psychological treatment for decades after 1935). There was no science whatsoever involved in AA, and indeed Alcoholics Anonymous actively resists any data collection about the efficacy of its techniques w…

actively resists any data collection

What an overly dramatic way to restate that these orgs are anonymous.

collective refusal to take the problem of addiction seriously

Incorrect. The church, particularly Jesus, does take it seriously. Addictive and destructive behavior patterns are called sin, but because this "progressive" society continues to water down right vs. wrong and tread down a path of moral relativism (that's just like your opinion, man!), it has reaped exactly what it has sown - a lukewarm and ineffectual stance towards active repentance from sin, including the desire to help others in that process.

What have you personally been doing to take things more seriously?

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#159

Post by milkytron »

rajacombinator wrote: post #157
warcher wrote: post #153

Fun fact: The current standard within the US is AA/NA. AA and NA are not only wholly unscientific, being invented of whole cloth by a layperson in the early 20th century (for context, lobotomy was a totally accepted psychological treatment for decades after 1935). There was no science whatsoever involved in AA, and indeed Alcoholics Anonymous actively resists any data collection about the efficacy of its techniques w…

Got any better suggestions? Genuinely interested, not sarcasm. (Mostly.)

I've seen a lot of headlines about studies of psychedelic drugs and compounds having a positive impact on addicts.

There are a ton of articles out there, most seem like clickbait, but there are studies that have been done such as this one [1] which say that LSD has had a positive impact on alcohol abuse. I'm not saying this is the cure, but I do think further studies could prove beneficial.

Edit: Added pdf of paper [2].

[1] http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0269881112439253

[2] https://www.ntnu.edu/documents/139226/8932977/JOP439253.pdf

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#160

Post by curun1r »

rajacombinator wrote: post #157
warcher wrote: post #153

Fun fact: The current standard within the US is AA/NA. AA and NA are not only wholly unscientific, being invented of whole cloth by a layperson in the early 20th century (for context, lobotomy was a totally accepted psychological treatment for decades after 1935). There was no science whatsoever involved in AA, and indeed Alcoholics Anonymous actively resists any data collection about the efficacy of its techniques w…

Got any better suggestions? Genuinely interested, not sarcasm. (Mostly.)

Not the poster you're replying to, but I'd say mindfulness and meditation. Learning to look inward can be an incredibly powerful tool for dealing with issues like substance abuse.
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