What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction • Hacker News Board

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#71

Post by dogruck » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:02 PM UTC

kchoudhu wrote: post #61

dogruck wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a "markets thing". Crack hit black communities. Then, black leaders within those communities responded by passing tough laws.

And the majority could just as easily have done the right thing and refused to pass the laws, while lending a helping hand and attempting to preserve these communities. You're going through this thread and blaming victims for their misfortune. It is, to say the least, unedifying.

Ah, "blaming victims for their misfortune." You seem cool.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#72

Post by spraak » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:02 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #65

spraak wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your detailed and educating post. I came into the comments here after Ctrl+F "kratom" on the article and finding no results. Kratom is life saving for opioid/opiate addictions, but as well as for chronic pain. My wife has been in constant chronic pain for the past few years, to the point of mostly being bedridden the entire day and not working. But doctors haven't found anything wrong with her. Perhaps…

I am very lucky myself, as I have mostly watched kratoms story from the sidelines. I've never had an opiate addiction and I don't have any chronic pain or anything like that. I tried it originally just out of curiosity after reading some of the research, and still occasionally use it in small doses for the energizing effect. I don't find larger doses useful to me personally. But I've encountered many people that have…

Yeah, you do make a great point about when to mention something or not.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#73

Post by glibgil » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:04 PM UTC

dogruck wrote: post #57

glibgil wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard the theory that racism might be institutionalized?

Have you studied the crack epidemic or have you simply slurped up some recent liberal political journalism?

> studied the crack epidemic

Your bias is showing. Crack arrest spree is more accurate. I was politically active while it was happening, so no, this isn't a recent observation.

Can I just add how incredibly rude "slurped up some recent liberal political journalism" is? You should be ashamed of the way you talk to strangers on the Internet.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#74

Post by sndean » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #56

sndean wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Withdrawal is hard. Just to emphasize that: Before my SO started working in a hospital, I had no idea that people going through alcohol withdrawal can end up in the ICU. They're ending up in an ICU because of the withdrawal, not the alcohol... That was really surprising to me.

Alcohol is one of the only substances on the planet that can cause you to straight up die from withdrawal alone. Deaths from opiate withdrawal are secondary, usually from falling during a seizure. But with alcohol, your heart can simply stop or your brain have a massive stroke from the withdrawal. We think it harmless because its legal, but alcohol is radically dangerous from an addiction standpoint.

That's interesting and makes alcohol sound pretty menacing. I should read more about it. It definitely sounds like seizures and heart issues come up the most. Plus their livers are shot, so toxicity of normally benign treatments is a concern.

Also interesting that, in the very wealthy area we're in, outside of infants and the elderly, middle-aged white men going through alcohol withdrawal are the most common ICU patients.

(sorry for derailing discussion away from opioid addiction)

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#75

Post by weeksie » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #27

Great article, but if your loved one has an opioid addiction and wants to quit without suffering the devastating withdrawal, I would strongly recommend investigating kratom. It is a non-opiate tree which grows primarily in Thailand and similar regions. It contains an alkaloid called mitragynine. This alkaloid is a selective opioid receptor agonist. Specifically, research shows that it is an agonist to several opioid…

Kratom is fine and all but I'd hardly describe the high as "mild". I'll take it once every few months but not more often than that primarily because it feels way too nice (much of the reason why I've not gone beyond dabbling in opiates).

It should go without stating that I very much support keeping it legal and available, especially to people who are addicted to opiates.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#76

Post by graphememes » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #52

jtmcmc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The problems with addiction - specifically opioid addiction - is that it causes negative, destructive behavior. This isn't a consequence of having a physical dependence we are all physically dependent on things after all.

No, it does not cause negative, destructive behavior. It causes you to lie down and feel good. And it also causes constipation. And, if your supply is interrupted, withdrawal symptoms. The rest is caused primarily by the laws and social environment. Having to interact with criminals? Getting uncertain doses? Overdosing? Those things are because it is illegal, not because it's an opiate.

The withdrawals do lead to destructive behavior.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#77

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

glibgil wrote: post #50

dogruck wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'all realize that black legislators and community organizers pushed for and voted for those "racist" crack sentences? They were trying to save their own communities. Edit: for the uninformed down voters: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...

Have you heard the theory that racism might be institutionalized?

[deleted]

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#78

Post by glibgil » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #68

glibgil wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard the theory that racism might be institutionalized?

So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail.

> So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail

No, I'm saying that you cannot make an appeal to authority. It is a logical fallacy. Just because some blacks were in favor does not mean it was not racist

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#79

Post by jtmcmc » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #52

jtmcmc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The problems with addiction - specifically opioid addiction - is that it causes negative, destructive behavior. This isn't a consequence of having a physical dependence we are all physically dependent on things after all.

No, it does not cause negative, destructive behavior. It causes you to lie down and feel good. And it also causes constipation. And, if your supply is interrupted, withdrawal symptoms. The rest is caused primarily by the laws and social environment. Having to interact with criminals? Getting uncertain doses? Overdosing? Those things are because it is illegal, not because it's an opiate.

Addiction by definition does cause negative destructive behavior. That's part of the definition. What you're describing is a combination of the psychoactive effects of it and its withdrawal symptoms.

I do agree with you, however. People become addicts due to how our society has criminalized and deregulated drug manufacture and sale and made it extremely hard to teach people how to do properly.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#80

Post by zaroth » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

ubernostrum wrote: post #64

otakucode wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely helpful. It is very incovenient, to be sure, but it is very helpful. If you want people to not use drugs, then you have to provide them with a fulfilling life or the opportunity for such. If your desire is to operate a society that grinds people down, restricts them in ways that feel burdensome to them, insults them, and also does not have people using drugs? You might as well wish to fly. Because you…

Never mind people who get addicted after being prescribed medication for an injury, then? Never mind that the new generations of opioids were marketed as safer/less addicting when they probably were more addicting, and thus prescribed even more out of perception of their safety?

Althogh this has certainly become the narrative of late, TFA seems to discount this fairly strongly;

"To that point, pain treatment is not the most significant risk factor for addiction. Far greater risk comes from simply being young and from using alcohol and other recreational drugs heavily. Ninety percent of all drug addictions start in the teens — and 75 percent of prescription opioid misuse begins when (mainly young) people get pills from friends, family or dealers — not doctors. Opioids are rarely the first drug people misuse."