It appears my Google account is slated for deletion • Hacker News Board

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#131

Post by jiggunjer » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:26 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #78

sbov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How tightly bound we are to just a few large tech companies is... unfortunate. I would love it if it were easier for the common person to host their own stuff. Between all the concerns involved (security, hardware, demand, etc.) I'm not sure how feasible it is. I've given it a lot of thought, and have slowly unwound my custom tech setups - from domains, to emails, to hardware. Mostly for the "bus" factor. When my dad…

I think we've gone well past the equilibrium point between ease of use and computer literacy, to the point that we are now disempowering users rather than helping them. If someone record a video on their phone and want to share it we know it's just a file on a disk, but most users don't, to them it's just a video that appears in a list in an app. We know a file can be copied, modified, shared, etc, but all they can d…

Teaching fundamentals won't change much if the software with the good features is never developed. The app business model is hard on things that are for pro users, and this group is shrinking because it is too much trouble to do things right.

Power users are being wrestled to the floor by locking bootloaders, not releasing source code and banning apps from the popular web stores. Eventually, they get fed up and just join the normal consumers using 3rd party web-apps with biased features.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#132

Post by pvdebbe » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:29 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #58

bostonvaulter2 wrote: post #19

What are some good alternative email accounts to use? I should really start decreasing my dependence on Google.

Anything, so long as your e-mail address is on a domain name you own and you back up your inbox via IMAP. If both of those are in place, you're not really dependent on your mail provider at all, because you can switch just by changing a DNS record. If you lose the use of an e-mail address on someone else's domain, then you've got a serious problem.

Exactly. IMAP is IMAP is IMAP, anything goes. Only if you crave for great web UIs then things narrow down to Fastmail/Gmail. Although, Gmail has been gone to crap, UI-wise for me. The process of writing plain-text emails has turned so cumbersome and the UI occasionally stops retrieving new mail to show. Too bad I'm still in love with Gmail labels: they act as TODO entries for me. IMAP folders won't replicate this behavior because the message can't be foldered _and_ remain in Inbox but I guess I can manage.

We have a Finnish, for-Finns-only nonprofit community that hosts email, ssh, www, you name it that I subscribed to for €40/y and I'm planning to move all of my gmail business over there. It's easy because I've had my domain for years now and it has been redirecting mail to my gmail.

And I already moved my github pages over. (Github is also having fits for wrongthinkers.)

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#133

Post by tanilama » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:30 AM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #46

throwawayjava wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, if anyone can think of something that I can do to help, I'm all ears. You already live in this world. Who cares if Goolge won't host these videos on youtube? I don't understand why this matters. There are millions of other video upload sites, all of which are extremely easy to find and use. There are literally too many open source options for sharing files to count, and many of them are even usable by no…

You seriously see no material difference in having your video on the YouTube vs on randomvideowebsite.com? It's not merely a question of finding a host to upload your file.

If people dislike Google that much, they should set their own websites, there are plenty of video hosting service out there that doesn't have as tight a control as Youtube has.

The only reason that you want to post on Youtube, other than any other sites is that you want to make make money out of it.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#134

Post by jiggunjer » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:37 AM UTC

tpeo wrote: post #15

KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

Besides being an issue of freedom of expression, couldn't this be construed as a form of damage? I mean, part of a journalist's trade is to reach out as many people as they possibly can. Taking stuff down goes in the opposite direction to that.

If you choose to build your house on an abandoned indian graveyard, should you complain when you get haunted? It doesn't matter if your house has incredible value to society; old Running Bear doesn't care.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#135

Post by tanilama » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:37 AM UTC

quuquuquu wrote: post #3

Help me understand- Alexa O'Brien has a Youtube account with many hours of video. She also has a google account, drive, etc. Some of her videos contained material that Google (being Google), didn't like. Despite the fact that it was all very important journalism, Google arbitrarily decided it was #extremism, therefore #banned. I would say that 5 years ago I would have been shocked and outraged, but lately I just abso…

> Google arbitrarily decided it was #extremism, therefore #banned

It is extremism. What makes a difference is the people's intention of uploading it. But it is not clearly to me, whether it makes a difference or not, if that video's targeting audience see this video and use it as an inspiration to commit terrorism.

> Google is on a crusade to demonitize any video it doesn't like

I am going to be a devil's advocate, make money out of a platform is not freedom of speech, or freedom of expression. That is why I cringed every time when some Youtuber acts like cry baby that certain video is demonetize crying no freedom of speech while that video is not blocked and had a million views.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#136

Post by KGIII » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:37 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #128

KGIII wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom always carries risks.

Yup, and intellectual feudalism is one of them, one that I hope we manage to avoid.

I believe humans are smart enough to filter and learn as they go. We are a resilient species. We will adapt and grow, it is as it always was.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#137

Post by dgut » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:54 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #99

blfr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Above being more than a legal concept, it's also not really about expression, ie. the biggest value to society is not from Alexa O'Brien being able to express her thoughts and feelings, which is a minor benefit to her, but in us being able to read them and then choose the best ideas to adapt/copy/implement. The fact that you can make your (realistically, very tiny) contribution to the culture is much less important t…

The cynical side of me thinks that a society with no control over (certain) information is one which is more vulnerable to control by bad actors. We have more of a filtering problem than an access problem at the moment - there's too much information to support all beliefs so people are more likely to become entrenched in whatever they do believe.

It doesn't matter what your cynical side thinks. Let them be "entrenched in whatever they do believe" if that's the case. All cases of totalitarianism have been possible by "filtering", not the free flow of information.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it." - MT

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#138

Post by hossbeast » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 5:59 AM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #42

sbov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How tightly bound we are to just a few large tech companies is... unfortunate. I would love it if it were easier for the common person to host their own stuff. Between all the concerns involved (security, hardware, demand, etc.) I'm not sure how feasible it is. I've given it a lot of thought, and have slowly unwound my custom tech setups - from domains, to emails, to hardware. Mostly for the "bus" factor. When my dad…

This is a great point, because I think it shows that people who are trying to redefine the contours of the standard free speech conversation (which had historically been about freedom from government imposed limits) are attempting to solve the wrong problem. The problem is dependence on huge monolithic tech platforms, such that we feel that the societal value of free expression is threatened by the standard forms mod…

Are there any companies out there trying to make it easy for consumers to legitimately own/host all their own digital content?

If the price was reasonable people would go for it, as long as setup and maintenance is transparent (that's what the company's services help you achieve).

If the networks were federated .. like e.g. Mastodon ...

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#139

Post by maccard » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 6:01 AM UTC

KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

To play devils advocate - are you ok with YouTube brings discovery and hosting platform for extreme Islam propaganda, or neo nazi/far right? Or what about less extreme content deliberately designed to mislead and draw attention to an issue (see the constant barrage of lies published in tabloid newspapers directed at certain hot topics, ranging from slightly misleading to downright lies).

I also don't see what the ISO has to do with it in this case, the authors gripe is with YouTube. Regardless of their ISP, this could have happened with YouTube.

If you want to share politically sensitive content, I think it's fair to say that YouTube isn't your friend.

Regarding solutions, there are plenty of solutions for sharing video that will never result in content being taken down. thesr methods don't offer the same visibility or discovery that YouTube does, which is why they're not as popular.

If you want to provide a censorship free place to host content, you better be prepared to fight a very difficult fight. Where do you stand on copyrighted content, on illegal material (some of which may be legal in some countries but not others), distasteful or offensive material?

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#140

Post by cm2187 » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 6:32 AM UTC

projectant wrote: post #112

quuquuquu wrote: post #3

Help me understand- Alexa O'Brien has a Youtube account with many hours of video. She also has a google account, drive, etc. Some of her videos contained material that Google (being Google), didn't like. Despite the fact that it was all very important journalism, Google arbitrarily decided it was #extremism, therefore #banned. I would say that 5 years ago I would have been shocked and outraged, but lately I just abso…

This happens. It's not good that it happens but we must expect it to happen. What power to we have? Change our perspective. These online services which area now beginning to dip their toes into censorship / advertiser-hedged editorializing, are not to be seen as reliable ubiquitous platforms existing for the convenience of all. As much as they perhaps want to be seen as such, their actions belie this. They are closed…

I am a big fan of run your own services. But when I do the maths, the cost is uneconomical for the average user. And the complexity already too high even for my own taste. Like configuring a mail server is hard.