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Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

arstechnica.com

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Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#201

Post by grecy »

mahyarm wrote: post #15
ianferrel wrote: post #4

In the February 2017 case of a California artist who was questioned at San Francisco International Airport upon re-entry, after he finally agreed to unlock his iPhone, it was taken out of his sight for several minutes and could have been imaged without his knowledge. Under iOS 11, unless the artist, Aaron Gach, decided to actually give up the passcode (rather than type it in himself), he could at least have been reas…

It does. But if your a US citizen or are ok to be barred from entering the US for a long time, then you have the option to not unlock. If you go the US citizen route, be prepared to never get your phone back and many future border crossings to be 4+hr affairs where they confiscate most of your things. As a US citizen they have to let you in.

> As a US citizen they have to let you in

True, and of course they can arrest you the instant they let you in.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#202

Post by comex »

eridius wrote: post #56
lern_too_spel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has required the user to enter the unlock code to back up the device for years now. This is Apple playing catch-up.

iOS devices have always required the device to "trust" the computer before allowing the backup. Looking at the article, the only real difference now appears to be that you can't just use TouchID, you're forced to use the passcode.

> Looking at the article, the only real difference now appears to be that you can't just use TouchID, you're forced to use the passcode.

That's part of it. Another part is that the passcode has to be entered after the device has been connected to the computer, as opposed to starting with an unlocked phone (maybe you took it while it was in use, maybe you forced the user to unlock it) and connecting it to a computer later.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#203

Post by mixmastamyk »

foolfoolz wrote: post #71
biftek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great. They essentially have a monopoly on providing privacy, which is and will continue to be a bigger competitive advantage.

totally agree. i think designing software so you dont have access to customer data (zero knowledge or customer held keys) will eventually be a big selling point for SaaS companies

Any posts you'd recommend?

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#204

Post by hvidgaard »

grecy wrote: post #200
eridius wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal agent is a crime. Edit: No seriously. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements . Refusing to unlock your device is one thing. Claiming that you did unlock it but in fact just used a "duress passcode" is a lie and can land you in jail.

So don't lie about it. "I just entered my duress pass code, the device is now wiped". Can they charge you with destruction of evidence when they have no idea if/what evidence was on the phone?

I'm pretty sure they can. And they will probably successfully argue that since you did destroy evidence, you were hiding something.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#205

Post by dymk »

grecy wrote: post #200
eridius wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal agent is a crime. Edit: No seriously. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements . Refusing to unlock your device is one thing. Claiming that you did unlock it but in fact just used a "duress passcode" is a lie and can land you in jail.

So don't lie about it. "I just entered my duress pass code, the device is now wiped". Can they charge you with destruction of evidence when they have no idea if/what evidence was on the phone?

How do you honestly think that will go down for you or anybody else that tries it, telling a federal officer that you just destroyed the thing they asked you to open?

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#206

Post by comex »

grecy wrote: post #201
mahyarm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. But if your a US citizen or are ok to be barred from entering the US for a long time, then you have the option to not unlock. If you go the US citizen route, be prepared to never get your phone back and many future border crossings to be 4+hr affairs where they confiscate most of your things. As a US citizen they have to let you in.

> As a US citizen they have to let you in True, and of course they can arrest you the instant they let you in.

Yes, but an arrest requires evidence that you actually committed a crime, whereas border searches require no particular standard and are conducted relatively indiscriminately. Refusing to unlock your device is not a crime in itself. (However, lying to a federal agent is a crime, so it's important for anyone attempting this strategy to be forthright about their refusal, rather than trying to trick the border agent with fake data or whatnot.)

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#207

Post by nly »

grecy wrote: post #200
eridius wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to a federal agent is a crime. Edit: No seriously. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements . Refusing to unlock your device is one thing. Claiming that you did unlock it but in fact just used a "duress passcode" is a lie and can land you in jail.

So don't lie about it. "I just entered my duress pass code, the device is now wiped". Can they charge you with destruction of evidence when they have no idea if/what evidence was on the phone?

If you're willing to destroy the data to prevent it being read, why not just wipe the phone before you leave and restore it from an encrypted online backup when you arrive?

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#208

Post by code_duck »

eridius wrote: post #56
lern_too_spel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has required the user to enter the unlock code to back up the device for years now. This is Apple playing catch-up.

iOS devices have always required the device to "trust" the computer before allowing the backup. Looking at the article, the only real difference now appears to be that you can't just use TouchID, you're forced to use the passcode.

Not always... just since iOS 7.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#209

Post by ianai »

userbinator wrote: post #160
jgh wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned in a sibling comment, and it's almost ironic thinking about it, this "freedom for security" tradeoff we're making here is not what it seems. I see your point in the context of e.g. WannaCry and WTC attacks emboldening authoritarians, however this privacy move we're discussing is actually an anti-authoritarian move. It gives the user more privacy and more freedom. Advocating more lax privacy/security in…

Apple is only shifting the authority to itself. They still have the signing keys and control what you can or cannot do with the device you "purchased".

In that vein, it would be awesome to see some base open sourced ala Darwin. Even if all it did was drop your iPhone into a command prompt after boot it would be enough.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#210

Post by ianai »

eridius wrote: post #125
earenndil wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me wonder something. I know that while they can't force you to enter your passcode, they can force you to unlock with your fingerprint. I've heard people ask for a feature where you basically have a "duress fingerprint," since fingerprint is already different than password, would using a duress fingerprint be acceptable?

If you're instructed to unlock the phone with your finger, and your "duress fingerprint" unlocks fake data, then you're misrepresenting that fake data as the real data and would presumably be considered to be making a false statement (though this is just speculation on my part). On the other hand, a "duress fingerprint" that locks out TouchID wouldn't be misrepresenting anything. But it wouldn't surprise me if they c…

That would be the technical equivalent to the fifth amendment.
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