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Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

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Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#181

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux »

patio11 wrote: post #87
milkytron wrote: post #83

> Mean words cannot hurt a bank. Threats cannot hurt a bank. Paper trails, though, are terrifying to regulated institutions. Your bank’s customer support representatives are taught to evaluate whether someone looks like they’re competent and collecting a paper trail. If they are, the CS rep is supposed to stop touching the case immediately and instead escalate them to a supervisor or to the legal department. This is…

Important not-a-lawyer advice: recording phone calls without the other party's consent is illegal in wide swathes of the U.S., but keeping copies of letters is legal everywhere.

And here I am, fascinated, with all the technology available today, paper and pen is the gold standard.

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#182

Post by notlob »

tptacek wrote: post #17
patio11 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not care about your credit rating but your credit rating, unfortunately, cares about you. Do you want to rent an apartment in the United States? You will, in many geographical markets, expect to have credit pulled as a matter of course. This is partly to determine ability to pay and partly to determine whether you are socially established; "I have mountains of money, why would I need credit ?" is something…

This was a really excellent post, the best I've seen you write up this material, and among your top 5 posts ever. Having said that, I'm tentatively going to disagree. I made a conscious, somewhat coerced choice in my early 20s never to rely on revolving credit. A combination of random course-of-business (of course resolved) delinquencies and no history of revolving credit resulted in my having relatively poor credit.…

> Every landlord I've rented from has pulled my credit.

There is also a separate tenant screening for real estate that, at least for me, seems to be more reliable as an indicator for trust than the financial credit report. It is possible your landlords are doing the same? Perhaps that’s what you mean by reference checks?

> It's more than likely that if I was in a different career, and particularly if that career was in a lower-paying sector where workers have less leverage, my credit score would be a real concern in finding a job.

I’d point out poor credit is also problematic in high-paying professional fields, e.g. in a sector requiring clearance, or perhaps in a sector requiring licensure. As I understand it even public trust clearance would be problematic with poor credit.

It’s great your strategy has worked out well for you, but it seems a required part of your strategy is to be remarkably lucky.

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#183

Post by jacquesm »

SilasX wrote: post #104
scarmig wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any metric is gameable. And, if the current algorithm is the best way to predict "credit-worthiness," publicizing its details will drive consumers toward different behavior, which makes it less powerful Imagine Google made its own credit score, based on your searches, social contacts, etc. It turns out that someone clicking on ads for product X have a very high likelihood of repaying their debt. This information ends…

That's overstating it. "Whether you've paid back all debts on time" isn't gameable.

Actually it is. Simply take out a couple of loans you don't need and pay them off at the agreed upon schedule.

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#184

Post by jacquesm »

tertius wrote: post #42
skinnymuch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can spend completely normally and still make money from CCs if you pay them off. Everyone needs basics like food (supplies), transportation costs, and household/hygiene items. Maybe you're better than us, but most people also have utilities like internet and cell phone bills. You likely paid for however you typed that comment. Putting that on a credit card with rewards and paying it off asap wouldn't hurt you one…

> discipline not to over spend Like the discipline to never use Facebook? Extremely rare. And psychologically expensive.

Easiest thing in the world and it is psychologically a gain, not a cost.

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#185

Post by geofft »

JoBrad wrote: post #36
readams wrote: post #30

The FTC has a site with a lot of helpful information on helping you resolve identity theft, and even will help generate the correct documentation and direct you through the maze. https://www.identitytheft.gov Note the it is literally the business of credit agencies to blithely ruin lives so they will be very unhelpful if they can.

Huge differences in quality between your first and second paragraphs. It is the business of credit agencies to serve as proxies of your credit worthiness. They prosper when more people are in the credit pool and are able to take out loans.

Credit agencies don't prosper when more people are able to take out loans. They're not the agencies that actually provide credit and profit off interest. They prosper when their customers (credit-providing institutions) give them more business by running more credit checks, which is short-term correlated with the number of people who want to take out loans, regardless of result, and long-term correlated with them not providing false positives - not saying "Yes, this person is creditworthy" when they aren't and causing banks to go with another credit agency. The danger of false negatives is extremely long-term and tenuous: the only way that would be a problem is if they turn away so many people from credit that either people stop trying to get credit or that banks decide that credit is an unprofitable business and give up, neither of which seems likely to happen for the foreseeable future.

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#186

Post by SilasX »

jacquesm wrote: post #183
SilasX wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's overstating it. "Whether you've paid back all debts on time" isn't gameable.

Actually it is. Simply take out a couple of loans you don't need and pay them off at the agreed upon schedule.

That doesn't change the value of "has paid back all debts owed?".

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#187

Post by dctoedt »

andrewhillman wrote: post #175

"These days they have streamlined online applications for writing to them, but I suggest that you only send them paper letters. This is a really weird thing for a technologist to suggest, but when you send paper letters, you can establish and own a “paper trail.” When you type words into their godawful web applications and hit submit, you will likely fail to retain a copy of those words and fail to retain records abo…

> YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEND LETTERS WITH 'USPS RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED.' (It's the green card you get at the post office and once the recipient receives your letter, you will get a green card in the mail serving as proof of delivery and acceptance.)

Also: 1) Get the actual green-card form beforehand; 2) type the green-card serial number above the inside address of the letter; and 3) keep a photocopy. Otherwise the recipient could claim that the signed green card, confirming receipt of the mailing, was for some other letter, not the one you sent. As a baby lawyer filling in for a more-senior associate at a court hearing, I had an opposing counsel make just such a claim to a judge; the judge gave the opposing counsel the benefit of the doubt. (The opposing counsel was later disbarred for unrelated reasons.)

Example of such an inside address:

--begin--

   VIA CERTIFIED MAIL NO. 123456789

   Evil Corporation
   9876 Main Street
   Anytown, Anystate  54321-9876

   Attention: Department of Fobbing People Off

   To whom it may concern:

   [etc.]
--end--

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#188

Post by JumpCrisscross »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #161
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recording phone calls without the other party's consent is super illegal, as in criminally illegal, in all-party consent states [1]. Needless to say, one gives up leverage when one commits a crime. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws

> super illegal Trafficking large quantities of drugs, aggravated assault, serious sexual assault, murder. These are super illegal . No one is going to prison for recording a support call that reveals impropriety on behalf of the company providing support. Many people here seem obsessed with laws, as if they possess value and worth in and of themselves, when really they are a very high latency side channel of society…

> The steps that would necessarily have to occur in order for a case to be brought against you because you illegally recorded a support call that revealed impropriety of the other party are fairly preposterous

It's as simple as "we will settle your qualms against our business in exchange for us not pursuing your wilful violation of criminal law in court". If you say no, a cheap state court filing would be routine for a business but hell for an individual.

TL; DR If you want to record a call, get permission.

Source: I helped a friend who had a call illegally recorded Cc our local AG on a letter protesting the matter. The AG requested information from the offender; they settled with damages for everyone involved's time and expenses. Running your life assuming nobody will hold you accountable works until it fails. When it fails you've handed the other party a ton of leverage.

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#189

Post by creeble »

tptacek wrote: post #122
creeble wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest that your disagreement with patio11's post bears no relevance with people who already have credit ratings, have been caught by the Equifax leak, and are at increased risk for identity theft as a result (which, I think, are those the post addresses). It seems to me you are simply gloating in your ability to avoid credit. Those who are able to avoid credit have little interesting to add to the conversat…

This comment doesn't make any argument that wasn't addressed directly in the comments preceding it.

Okay, sorry, perhaps my point is different.

It is irrelevant whether you have any credit cards, or whether you have a bad credit rating, or whether you care. If you have a mortgage in the US, then Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion have your number. They have your number, they have mine, and they have brownbat's.

Now, other people have my number. And the only way I could have avoided that was to have paid cash for my house and/or had a fairly limited set of landlords forever. So the OP's point still stands, but I strongly agree with patio11's comment that my credit rating cares about me irrespective of how I care about it.

EDIT: sp

Re: Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You

#190

Post by thanksgiving »

ballenf wrote: post #165
didibus wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you record the consent itself? Or is it going to be a case of he said/she said? I'd assume you'd need proof that you had asked for consent prior.

The pedantic way (and maybe required under some theoretic draconian regulatory environment): - no active recording - Mr. Wants-to-record: "May I record this phone call?" Ms. Recordee: "Ok" - start recording - Mr. Wants-to-record: "I am now recording based on the permission you just gave prior to starting recording. Are we in agreement?" Ms. Recordee: "Yep" ---- FWIW, I've had conversations pretty close to that when d…

> This call may be recorded for quality and training purposes.

They never ask me to say I'm OK with it.

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