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Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

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Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#71

Post by criddell »

jstanley wrote: post #35
criddell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller als…

> Being the sole seller also means that they can negotiate ruthlessly and drive prices down to maximize profit for the people of Ontario. Being the sole seller also means they have a monopoly. It's much easier to run a monopoly profitably by charging high prices than by negotiating low prices. Even if they do negotiate low prices, what incentive is there to pass the savings on to the customer?

> what incentive is there to pass the savings on to the customer?

I mentioned this in another comment, but for alcohol there are a lot of external costs associated with consumption. It makes sense to try include some of those costs.

I have no idea how they will price marijuana.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#72

Post by acchow »

rbobby wrote: post #47
3pt14159 wrote: post #15

I'm a Toronto native. These are the forces driving this decision: 1. Provincial government is cash poor. The LCBO is a huge source of cash, what government would give up another source? This isn't taxes, this is profit. "Isn't this just another tax?" One might ask, but no it's not. The reason is that Ontario has fewer alcohol distribution centres than a free market would provide. Most people just do a bigger alcohol…

> The union at the LCBO is huge and powerful. The jobs, even seasonal ones, pay well [...] And oddly enough I'm perfectly happy with that. Ontario's strategy with booze is responsible consumption (or whatever it's called)... essentially price it sufficiently high that we don't get too many drunks on the street. Given how badly alcohol abuse can mess up lives (not just the abuser but their family and friends too, not…

> essentially price it sufficiently high that we don't get too many drunks on the street.

Other countries don't need artificially inflated prices and a government-regulated sales to accomplish this.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#73

Post by mynegation »

tekni5 wrote: post #66

If anyone is interested, there is an interesting documentary about the LCBO. Developed by homebrewers, so it's not completely impartial but also quite fair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn555TyJJw0 Giving government absolute control over distribution of a non-essential product/service is probably not the best idea, but at least it's better than having that product/service be completely illegal. Ideally they should…

As an Ontarian and having previously lived in a country where pretty much anyone can sell alcohol till very late I passionately support LCBO and - as a voter - will support the proposed provincial government controlled marijuana distribution. No, it does not completely prevent alcohol in the hands of minors, late night drinking binges, deaths from methylene, but reduces these cases greatly for sure.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#74

Post by criddell »

ontarioborn wrote: post #40
Para2016 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being the sole seller and negotiating "ruthlessly" leaves a lot of room for black market.

Not anymore. Beer, cider, and wine are available in some supermarkets since 2016. see https://www.ontario.ca/page/beer-wine-cider-sales-grocery-st... . But it's not like the USA, where cigarettes and beer are the first things one sees when walking into a 7-11.

The last time I was in Ontario, the grocery store did have a beer and wine section, but it wasn't part of the store. It was basically a separate store within the store.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#75

Post by markroseman »

JPKab wrote: post #64
vkou wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. Why? The largest chain of BC liquor stores is government-owned and operated. They do a pretty decent job of it.

"They do a pretty decent job of it." Compared to who? You have no frame of reference, because they have no competition. They could do a terrible job, and it wouldn't matter. They're a monopoly. They can do it as good or bad as they want, and you'll still go in and buy it.

BC actually has both privately run and government run liquor stores.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#76

Post by stevehiehn »

mwdalrymple wrote: post #28

The LCBO is a good employer for stupid people. Those salaries go right back into the economy. These unionized jobs also come with a great pension providing retirement security. I am quite happy with this. The government privatizing things such as Ontario Hydro has been a huge disaster. At least they are not stupid enough to give this up.

'Stupid People'? Come on, that's a real asshole thing to say. You can't be to bright yourself if you think a person is stupid for working an honest job.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#77

Post by devrandomguy »

matart wrote: post #68

Will they sell it at duty free like alcohol is?

Screw duty free, the airline should offer cannabis cookies as a snack option. What airline wouldn't like a plane full of chilled out passengers, who are contented to watch reruns of old Disney movies? And I'll take an extra pizza pocket, plz & thx.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#78

Post by saenns »

mynegation wrote: post #73
tekni5 wrote: post #66

If anyone is interested, there is an interesting documentary about the LCBO. Developed by homebrewers, so it's not completely impartial but also quite fair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn555TyJJw0 Giving government absolute control over distribution of a non-essential product/service is probably not the best idea, but at least it's better than having that product/service be completely illegal. Ideally they should…

As an Ontarian and having previously lived in a country where pretty much anyone can sell alcohol till very late I passionately support LCBO and - as a voter - will support the proposed provincial government controlled marijuana distribution. No, it does not completely prevent alcohol in the hands of minors, late night drinking binges, deaths from methylene, but reduces these cases greatly for sure.

for sure? others might not find your anecdotal evidence as persuasive as you do.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#79

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

stevehiehn wrote: post #76
mwdalrymple wrote: post #28

The LCBO is a good employer for stupid people. Those salaries go right back into the economy. These unionized jobs also come with a great pension providing retirement security. I am quite happy with this. The government privatizing things such as Ontario Hydro has been a huge disaster. At least they are not stupid enough to give this up.

'Stupid People'? Come on, that's a real asshole thing to say. You can't be to bright yourself if you think a person is stupid for working an honest job.

Perhaps 'Stupid wages' for unexceptional people is more accurate.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#80

Post by saenns »

cortesoft wrote: post #53
thinkharder wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in a state with state-run liquor, this is the exact opposite of how it actually plays out. Prices are anywhere from 30-100+% more than across the border in a state without a state-run liquor policy. Because the government has a monopoly there is no competition to drive prices lower and since the government monopoly gets to keep the profit there is no incentive for them to lower prices. Furthermor…

I think costing more and making the government more money are intended features of this system, not side-effects. 'vice' dispensaries are not meant to provide the best service to their customers. They are meant to fill a need well enough to prevent black market competitors, while at the same time making the vice inconvenient enough to discourage its use as much as possible. At the same time, they want to maximize rev…

is taxation not a simpler and more direct way to achieve higher prices without granting practically irreversible monopoly rights?
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