So I think this is completely wrong. Bootcamps are providing a route to jobs that doesn't involve taking another for years it for a university degree; it's a massive gain in efficiency. By being smaller, bootcamps should have more ability to pivot content to match market demands, and give students advice on directions to persue. Front end development needs for entry level people are getting satisfied, so it's time to…
University education is absolutely an overcrowded space. Most colleges do not live up to their cost. Students are starting to notice and choose other options. It's also well known theres too many law schools and too many lawyers. It's a bad market to enter into now.
Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
101–110 of 152 posts
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#102I think that bootcamps actually can work well for people who already have highly honed analytical and logical reasoning skills, but for whatever reason haven't gotten involved in programming. For instance, a linguistics or philosophy major, or maybe a pure math major, who hasn't done any programming. For example, in a math class on graph theory, we essentially did DFS and BFS, but through proof, not through code. I t…
I completely agree. I did my undergrad and grad studies in philosophy, specifically focusing on contemporary and symbolic logic, before joining a six month bootcamp. Before the bootcamp, I had at least six months of development experience. Would I do it again? Absolutely, the bootcamp gave me discipline, a network, and a schedule to fill the gaps in my development experience. Did it teach me computer science? No way.…
> I like to think that bootcamps are just an extension or tool to employ as an autodidact.
If you are an autodidact, a bootcamp isn't even required. The Internet is chock full of resources for learning programming that makes it extremely simple to learn on your own. I look at a bootcamp as paying for connections. A Bootcamp should help get you in touch with prospective employers or connect you with other developers with similar goals. Learning how to program is the easy part when compared to learning the soft skills required to be part of or build a successful company.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#103Why do people think a 12 week course will make a non-technical person ready for a junior developer role? Most developers I know have years of deep experience with computers before becoming professional programmers. (Things like fixing driver issues, installing linux, patching games etc). I have several friends who went to bootcamps had no deep technical interest beforehand. They just heard that computer programming w…
>>They just heard that computer programming was good money, and they enrolled. I think this is the biggest possible problem with them. I've known a few people who've gone through it and done well. The different between them and others is that they want to be programmers. The 12 week course didn't teach them everything, but it taught them enough to go and figure out what questions to ask and search for. Those people w…
After this thread ages for a day or so, head over to the Twitter feeds of bootcamp CEOs and directors to hear how they describe this thread as being "all anecdotal evidence of a few who "Don't Really Know What IS Going On"" instead of taking this information in... in a meaningful way and making actual change for the students they already have and the ones they hope to get in the future. That costs too much money and time. Money and time they would prefer the students spend. So these students are squeezed on both sides- by the camps who false promise and the employers who want them to arrive job-ready out of the gate. Jumping up and down and saying it ain't so isn't going to make this un-so.
I think we need to stop degrading people for wanting a job and calling that "just in it for the money". Everyone does a job "for the money". Why should a worker not want compensation for hard work? Come on! We call those people "artists" don't we? And we know how much they get paid. This isn't heading in a good direction. Let's show some vision.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#104So I think this is completely wrong. Bootcamps are providing a route to jobs that doesn't involve taking another for years it for a university degree; it's a massive gain in efficiency. By being smaller, bootcamps should have more ability to pivot content to match market demands, and give students advice on directions to persue. Front end development needs for entry level people are getting satisfied, so it's time to…
Problem is they aren't teaching enough in bootcamps. You're not going to learn enough in 3-6 months to be hirable. There's too much else to the job, unless you can go to work for those magical companies that use a STACK that is a 1:1 match for what you learned in bootcamp. Most companies aren't interested in hand-holding.
If bootcamps would partner with companies to bring in bootcampers at $30k/year and let the real learning begin, it would be a successful model. Unfortunately, the bootcamp marketing is selling something far more grandiose.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#105"While coding boot camps had many course listings on JavaScript, Ruby, and web development, they had none that covered product management, wireframing, cloud computing, DevOps, or Agile methodologies" I have a 4 year computer science degree and I didn't learn any of the listed topics either, so I'm not sure if the article is implying that other institutions do prepare new grads for these topics. The main advantage I…
Ditto on the CS Degree. Closest thing I learned to the above skills that was part of the curriculum was Waterfall, UML, and making ERDs. Had to teach myself git.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#106Why do people think a 12 week course will make a non-technical person ready for a junior developer role? Most developers I know have years of deep experience with computers before becoming professional programmers. (Things like fixing driver issues, installing linux, patching games etc). I have several friends who went to bootcamps had no deep technical interest beforehand. They just heard that computer programming w…
The cynical answer is because they saw an ad telling them that the bootcamp would get them A SIX FIGURE JOB!!! and they want to believe it. It's an incredibly attractive pitch.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
I completely agree. I did my undergrad and grad studies in philosophy, specifically focusing on contemporary and symbolic logic, before joining a six month bootcamp. Before the bootcamp, I had at least six months of development experience. Would I do it again? Absolutely, the bootcamp gave me discipline, a network, and a schedule to fill the gaps in my development experience. Did it teach me computer science? No way.…
Just like most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. > I like to think that bootcamps are just an extension or tool to employ as an autodidact. If you are an autodidact, a bootcamp isn't even required. The Internet is chock full of resources for learning programming that makes it extremely simple to learn on your own. I look at a bootcamp as paying for connections. A Bootcamp should help get you in…
Without initial guidance and a firm commitment, we end up with questions like, "Should I learn Java or Javascript?" or "Can I learn Go in a week?" Is it possible to self teach completely? Yes. But you would need both discipline and analytical rigor as well as the humility to find help when you run into issues. I went into the bootcamp looking for both a mentor, which I found, and connections, which I also found.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#108Bootcamps are just too short. I think the sweet spot for a coursework in programming is a year to two years. That's essentially how long my university degree was if you remove the non-CS required classes.
More like 5 if people want to use the term "engineer" on their CV.
As I said in a thread about this very topic, I feel that a better title is "software technician" (in the same sense as a automotive technician or a dental technician)
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#109I think that bootcamps actually can work well for people who already have highly honed analytical and logical reasoning skills, but for whatever reason haven't gotten involved in programming. For instance, a linguistics or philosophy major, or maybe a pure math major, who hasn't done any programming. For example, in a math class on graph theory, we essentially did DFS and BFS, but through proof, not through code. I t…
When I studied mechanical engineering we had to work in a shop for 8 weeks doing a lot of manual stuff, welding and using a lot of machines. You don't learn this stuff in university and it was immensely valuable to me.
Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
3 out of 923 comments is a trend now? I think you need to reevaluate what you consider obvious/significant.
4 explicitly say it which is in a way kind of them. Many others probably just drop the resume right in the trash.
What I can tell you is that I know many, many bootcamp grads and virtually all of them got good jobs, at good companies and not always junior. I still don't take that as proof of anything and am willing to take evidence to the contrary where it exists though.