Earlier quoted context omitted.
Small nitpick: While Jazz is mostly an African American creation and most of it's most successful practitioners are black, most Jazz aficionados will bristle at lumping Jazz with hiphop... it would be like lumping Beethoven with Ozzy Osborne, doesn't compute....I am a big hiphop fan and a lover of jazz but they are different.
Well, of course they are, but your first sentence is all I was after. Jazz and hiphop share the fact that they were authored, in majority, by african-americans and the songs in both genres, in majority, tell tales of poverty and hope.
In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
191–200 of 235 posts
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not attributing this to you, but you could deploy your argument against abolishing slavery. > How do you propose to raise up a culture that doesn't value diligent hard work Which culture? Don't be abstract. Name what culture you think doesn't value hard work and I will and we'll see if I can't find a counterexample.
I prefer positive examples. It's no secret that the Jewish people have done so phenomenally well, despite two millennia of persecution, because of their strong values of hard work, family, and creativity.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not saying it's controversial, but I'd rather see strong evidence that just make assumptions based on general cultural stereotypes like "Jewish people work hard" or weak evidence like "they own a disproportionate amount of wealth."
Eh, it's a little bit controversial. As nearly as I can tell the 25% figure comes from Stormfront, and I've been unable to find any independent source for it; the triple parenthesis are a bit of a tip off. It is probably a corruption of a claim that 25% of US billionaires were Jewish, which is a radically different claim.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
And some people would view getting put on a hot stove as a fun and exciting thing, so no, not really. Unsure of why I'm getting downvotes.. Are people completely unaware of the fact that some people enjoy pain?
You made a pretty contrived comment to refute the parent poster, considering how unlikely it is that someone would find it a fun and exciting thing to do.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's called moral relativism. It does't get you very far, because it is a belief system with no values, and therefore nothing to aim at. There are some tools for objectively judging morality aka "good and bad". One is the principle of universality. So an outcome is moral if you can reasonably state that you would be equally happy to be on either side of the table. Slavery generally fails this test, since most peopl…
There's nothing objective about picking and applying an arbitrary principle, though. Also, it's not true that a moral relativist must have no values. One can have values while believing they are not objective, but closer to preferences held very strongly.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's called moral relativism. It does't get you very far, because it is a belief system with no values, and therefore nothing to aim at. There are some tools for objectively judging morality aka "good and bad". One is the principle of universality. So an outcome is moral if you can reasonably state that you would be equally happy to be on either side of the table. Slavery generally fails this test, since most peopl…
The capitalism system itself fails the universality test, because a person wouldn’t be equally happy to be on either side of a table with Jeff Bezos on one side and an unskilled immigrant on the other. Arguably slavery never went away, it’s just that the slavery franchise was disguised/rebranded and then extended as social mobility was slowly rolled back.
I think it went away. Capitalism doesn't force anyone to work, you may choose not to participate in the labour market and be homeless.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#197If 'all cultures are not equal' is a false statement then we're stating 'all cultures are equal' which I interpret as saying there is no metric by which we can measure the 'goodness' or 'effectiveness' of a culture. So let's accept the statement 'all cultures are equal' at face value: all cultures are equal and therefore there exists no metric for measuring 'goodness' or 'effectiveness.' If C(now) captures my current…
1. All cultures are equal in the sense that they are equally as good. 2. There is no way to compare the merits of any two cultures.
(1) is a claim that attributes equal merit to each culture. It is then necessary to establish what exactly these merits are.
(2) is a claim that does not per se exclude the possibility of there being a matter of fact about which culture is superior in which ways w.r.t. other cultures. It denies the possibility of establishing what the fact of the matter is.
(1) admits only two possible presuppositions. Either (a) all cultures are equal because the good they impart onto individuals and societies is ultimately the same and thus differences are merely cosmetic, or (b) cultures are not a good (that is, neutral or inert w.r.t. the good).
(2) admits two possibilities as well. Either (a) our ability to know is limited or impaired or (b) we cannot know because there is nothing to know, i.e., (1b).
I think focusing on (1) in this context is a waste of time because clearly no one in this context actually believes it. Protests have a motive and motives only make sense w.r.t. to some end. As you point out, what's the impetus when change produces no change in the good? Protesters and revolutionaries may hold incoherent and confused beliefs, they may have ulterior motives, they may be wrong, but ultimately there is a belief that what is now is evil and what they aim at is better.
Ultimately, to be able to judge the merits of any culture requires (at least) a sound philosophical anthropology. You need to understand the nature of man to know what he requires to flourish. Only then can you judge whether, in what ways and to what degree a culture enables that flourishing.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's called moral relativism. It does't get you very far, because it is a belief system with no values, and therefore nothing to aim at. There are some tools for objectively judging morality aka "good and bad". One is the principle of universality. So an outcome is moral if you can reasonably state that you would be equally happy to be on either side of the table. Slavery generally fails this test, since most peopl…
As an interesting aside, this statement shows the massive impact Kant has had on modern thought. To the point that it's difficult to overestimate his impact. The principle of universality is a relatively modern phenomenon. For much of recorded history that was not the dominant value.[1] [1]: There's several good texts exploring how people may have thought at various times in history (because it's all speculation, of…
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Which is easy to measure I think this might be formally incomputable...
Well, it seems to me intuitively obvious that cultures that value education prepare children better for their economic future than cultures that don't value education. I may not be able to compute it. I may not even be able to measure it. But I think that anyone who disagrees is making a far less reasonable claim than I am making, and therefore has the burden of proof.
Re: In Defense of Amy Wax’s Defense of Bourgeois Values
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I prefer positive examples. It's no secret that the Jewish people have done so phenomenally well, despite two millennia of persecution, because of their strong values of hard work, family, and creativity.
How is this at all controversial? The American Jewish minority of 6% of the population owns 25% of American wealth. They've done well. Are the downvotes about attributing it to their values? What else? Their skill at (((accidental))) eugenics? The selection pressure put on them by other groups? Other theory: KGB or Mossad votebots that want to suppress discussions about Jews not only being victims.