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How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

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Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#171

Post by tarboreus »

new299 wrote: post #105
tomohawk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, this guy shouldn't have to prove that it is safe. Rather, the state should have to prove that he did something wrong, as defined by a law. If the state thinks that this is wrong, the state should provide evidence that it is wrong and get a law passed. The state in this case is acting like a terrorist organization. It has no law on its side, and is at least implicitly threatening to take away the kids.

This seems tangential to what I was trying to (perhaps unclearly) express. I personally would agree with author of the post. However, the author is saying "it's not dangerous to do this", as opposed to "it is a basic human right to do this". He is also asserting that the opposing view is not supported by the facts (it's "fact free"). That's all fine. But then the author presents statistics he's gathered, none of whic…

Again, the burden of proof is (or should be) on the state here. And there are no stats showing that this is dangerous, because it isn't.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#172

Post by cholantesh »

wholinator wrote: post #167
orf wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of all these problems caused by the cancerous lefties! "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their m…

Do you have a source for that quote? I'd be very interested in reading the rest of whatever that is.

Interview conducted by Dan Baum for an article in Harper's from '94: https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#173

Post by extra88 »

Xoros wrote: post #169
extra88 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been helpful to mention you were describing a situation in France, it makes a big difference which country you're in and most people here don't have experience there. I have heard that homeschooling is not as accepted in France as it is in the U.S., it seems like there quite a few individual liberties Americans assume that are not protected in France.

Yes, sorry about that, I realized it when reading your answer, that's why I answered, to add context. France is hiding behind terrorism to prevent parents to do homeschooling, arguing it will help radicalization. Of course it's completely irrelevant, but governments hate to lose control on people.

I don't think homeschooling is "completely irrelevant" to radicalization. There are American homeschoolers who are pretty radical in their beliefs and take their children out of school to prevent them being exposed to other beliefs.

I would agree that with Islamic radicalization (probably the only kind of radicalization being considered) in Europe, education at home by parents is not a significant source of radicalized youths.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#174

Post by esaym »

kareemm wrote: post #11
esaym wrote: post #2

>Attorney General, and determined that children under 10 years old could not be unsupervised in or outside the home Good night... glad I live in America.

America's got its own share of issues wrt this topic: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-rang...

And can you imagine how much worse it would be if there actually was a "legal" unsupervised age???

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#175

Post by kaeluka »

foepys wrote: post #35
geff82 wrote: post #5

While helicopter parenting is a thing here in Germany, too, it is still possible to use your sane judgement as a parent for a lot of things. My daughter is not yet in school (so I am not into a peer group that talks about such stuff), but I see the 7-year-old neighbour kids walking to school without supervision, just as it has been the custom here in my own childhood. I have to admit there are fewer of those on the s…

There currently is discussion about how parent should stop bringing their kids to school and let them ride the bus or walk. In the often narrow streets in front of German schools, parents drive their children to the gate of the school in their SUVs and endanger everybody around them.

My mother, a former Austrian primary school teacher has, in her words "dragged this mother out of her car and showed her what could've happened." I think that the school doesn't let parents drop kids off right at the door any more for this reason, they have to go to the parking lot down the street instead. Most kids that live near walk or cycle to school (once they're allowed to).

Edit: I think the school recommends that parents walk with the first graders for a certain time (those that are in walking distance) until they feel that the kid knows the way and the rules and feels safe.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#176

Post by Xoros »

extra88 wrote: post #173
Xoros wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, sorry about that, I realized it when reading your answer, that's why I answered, to add context. France is hiding behind terrorism to prevent parents to do homeschooling, arguing it will help radicalization. Of course it's completely irrelevant, but governments hate to lose control on people.

I don't think homeschooling is "completely irrelevant" to radicalization. There are American homeschoolers who are pretty radical in their beliefs and take their children out of school to prevent them being exposed to other beliefs. I would agree that with Islamic radicalization (probably the only kind of radicalization being considered) in Europe, education at home by parents is not a significant source of radicaliz…

Yes, I read something about that subject in a recent HN post, with the religious opinions for homeschooling.

But in France, that's really irrelevant. All the recent terror attacks have been perpetrated by persons with a public school education.

So short sighted politicians could also claim that it's the fault of the public schooling system ! And that also be irrelevant.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#178

Post by tempestn »

new299 wrote: post #120
tempestn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is. One incident in two years, out of a population of tens of millions, is effectively zero. Regardless of how many kids ride the bus, if there were a significant number of predators out there waiting to abduct children, there are sufficient opportunities available that it would happen with some regularity. It's not for lack of unsupervised bus riders that it's such a rare occurrence.

So, I'm now reading the article he cites to support this. It's an old article, from 2013. It states that: "Police statistics show 25 children of the 46,718 reported missing in 2011 listed as "abducted by stranger." And then goes on to show that in the majority of cases that the abductor was known to the parents. So, the useful dataset would be. * How many of the children were abducted with unsupervised? * In the Cana…

Fair enough. The original statistic could well be inaccurate. I was simply responding to the comment that it's irrelevant without knowing the number of underage bus riders.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#179

Post by WillPostForFood »

galfarragem wrote: post #85
WillPostForFood wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General increase in risk aversion. Same reason there are seat belt laws, helmet laws, firecrackers are illegal, you have to take your shoes off to get on a plane, lawn darts are banned, and people fear second hand smoke. To tie it back to the parent comment, there is data that shows more individualistic people take more risks, so perhaps it is tied to the decline of individualism, and religion. Regarding kids specifi…

Doesn't your explanation corroborate the parent comment? Individualism and traditional families are more correlated with right-wing policies.

Parent, or parent-parent? I'd put "safety" laws on the left side of the political spectrum, so decline in individualism & religion would correlate to more safety laws.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#180

Post by WillPostForFood »

mathw wrote: post #129
WillPostForFood wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General increase in risk aversion. Same reason there are seat belt laws, helmet laws, firecrackers are illegal, you have to take your shoes off to get on a plane, lawn darts are banned, and people fear second hand smoke. To tie it back to the parent comment, there is data that shows more individualistic people take more risks, so perhaps it is tied to the decline of individualism, and religion. Regarding kids specifi…

Aren't individualism and religion opposing philosophies? Most religions demand conformity.

Conformity and individualism aren't exactly the same, though there is clearly overlap. Religious people might conform more in terms of things like dress, but at the same time be more open to individual rights. Go back to Declaration of Independence and the idea mean are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." It's not a coincidence that Communism is an atheistic political philosophy.
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