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How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

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Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#41

Post by pmiller2 »

new299 wrote: post #21

I'm sympathetic. But given the article is against "fact-free" parenting. I didn't find the data presented very compelling. Basically you'd need to know how common crime against children traveling unsupervised on buses in a similar scenario. The closest example presented is kids in New York riding the subway, so presenting stats on that would be useful. I'd also like more details on the Japanese example, it's honestly…

Hearing reports of a thing on the news is actually a signal that such things are not common. That's why you don't see every little (or even big) traffic accident on the news. It's not special. It happens every day.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#42

Post by gwatch »

Stratoscope wrote: post #37

Back around 1960, when I was eight and my little sister was six, we went with our dad to a chess tournament at the Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco. [1] Of course if you're six and eight and not really into chess, nothing could be more boring. So we asked Dad if we could do something else. He gave us a few nickels and quarters and said "sure, how about riding the cable cars and go see the town?" So we did! It wa…

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960. Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#43

Post by AstralStorm »

dagw wrote: post #39
dwaltrip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the post: > And the odds of your child being kidnapped by a stranger on the bus? Incredibly long. A 2003 study in Canada found just one case nationwide of a stranger abducting a child, in the entire two years prior. I personally found the article very compelling. This kind of mindless fear, in direct contradiction of clear evidence, makes my blood boil.

While I agree with the general assertion in the article, cherry picking statistics for just one, very rare, crime isn't compelling evidence. Why not present the stats for all relevant crimes?

So what kinds of crimes are you willing to look at? Murders and abductions are probably the worst and easiest to track.

Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#44

Post by dagw »

AstralStorm wrote: post #43
dagw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the general assertion in the article, cherry picking statistics for just one, very rare, crime isn't compelling evidence. Why not present the stats for all relevant crimes?

So what kinds of crimes are you willing to look at? Murders and abductions are probably the worst and easiest to track. Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Robbery/theft/assault etc. seems like the ones you'd actually care about. Murders and kidnappings of children by strangers are so rare that any data about them is essentially meaningless.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#45

Post by isolli »

gwatch wrote: post #42
Stratoscope wrote: post #37

Back around 1960, when I was eight and my little sister was six, we went with our dad to a chess tournament at the Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco. [1] Of course if you're six and eight and not really into chess, nothing could be more boring. So we asked Dad if we could do something else. He gave us a few nickels and quarters and said "sure, how about riding the cable cars and go see the town?" So we did! It wa…

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

I would say your fears are the real problem here.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#46

Post by imcrs »

oblio wrote: post #24
dwaltrip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the post: > And the odds of your child being kidnapped by a stranger on the bus? Incredibly long. A 2003 study in Canada found just one case nationwide of a stranger abducting a child, in the entire two years prior. I personally found the article very compelling. This kind of mindless fear, in direct contradiction of clear evidence, makes my blood boil.

Every "bet" consideration needs to include possible loss, not only the odds. Losing your child is for many people not that far off from losing their own life, so people tend to react in a very cautious way.

Not when they decide to drive themselves and their kids on the freeway every workday.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#47

Post by captainmuon »

geff82 wrote: post #5

While helicopter parenting is a thing here in Germany, too, it is still possible to use your sane judgement as a parent for a lot of things. My daughter is not yet in school (so I am not into a peer group that talks about such stuff), but I see the 7-year-old neighbour kids walking to school without supervision, just as it has been the custom here in my own childhood. I have to admit there are fewer of those on the s…

Yes, exactly. In fact, kids are usually taught the way to elementary school in the last year of Kindergarten (for the non-Germans: "Kindergarten" here is approximately pre-school in the US. It is where kids go until they are about 6.)

The social expectation is that every kid walks or takes public transportation (unless that is not possible). There are usually no dedicated school buses, but the public buses have extra timeslots. You meet your friends on the way to school, which is an important experience. Everything is safe, especially because it is the social norm.

I have the opportunity to live either in the US or Germany, and the increasing craziness and hysteria around how children are treated is the major reason for me to stay with my family in Germany.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#48

Post by pg314 »

nicklaf wrote: post #3

Any countries out there where this kind of helicopter parenting isn't endemic in the culture?

Any country not in North America? In Belgium, the bus company had to ask parents not to put children under 5 alone on the bus, which happened in a couple of instances (see [1], in Dutch). Presumably they have no problems with kids older than that.

[1] http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20141120_01386041

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#49

Post by tanto »

gwatch wrote: post #42
Stratoscope wrote: post #37

Back around 1960, when I was eight and my little sister was six, we went with our dad to a chess tournament at the Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco. [1] Of course if you're six and eight and not really into chess, nothing could be more boring. So we asked Dad if we could do something else. He gave us a few nickels and quarters and said "sure, how about riding the cable cars and go see the town?" So we did! It wa…

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

Just checked your other comments. You really seem to HATE "leftism". You really should think about the fact that you are calling the political direction of many other people "cancer"

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#50

Post by averagewall »

What must be the most painful part of this is that he's in a weak position having shared custody. A normal parent could just give the middle finger and they'll never have their kids taken away for a single minor behaviour like that. But someone with tenuous custody has to bend over backwards to look like they're doing it right. It seems he could actually lose his kids quite easily because they have another home ready to go to.
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