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Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

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Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#81

This is particularly messed up because you know poorer people will take this option so they can afford their next phone or device. It preys on lower-income individuals unaware of what is going on. People who generally aren't aware of what rights are being tossed out, or may not even have the luxury to put personal rights above cost.

What makes you think that poor people are unaware of what's going on? Like they must be simpletons that can't comprehend the concept of privacy? In my experience, they know how messed up the world is. They don't have a choice, but they know... and they are constantly coming up with low-tech ways to screw the man.

The parent comment didn't claim that poor people aren't aware of what's going on. Merely that if you are poor, and you aren't aware of the privacy implications, then you are more likely to opt-in to this.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#82
post #80

This sort of disgusting privacy intrusion plus the rising costs of smartphones and their associated data plans have me thinking that eventually we'll just reach a breaking point where people choose to go back to dumbphones. I'm already nearly at that point myself.

> I'm already nearly at that point myself.

As another data point, I don't care at all, about their data collection.

They can invade my privacy all they want and I will continue to buy the latest iPhone for myself and my family.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#83
post #41

This is particularly messed up because you know poorer people will take this option so they can afford their next phone or device. It preys on lower-income individuals unaware of what is going on. People who generally aren't aware of what rights are being tossed out, or may not even have the luxury to put personal rights above cost.

Poorer people's browsing histories are also less valuable to Verizon.

Not necessarily. There have been numerous studies in the banking industry, for example, that show "poor people" bank accounts are more valuable than high-wealth bank accounts due to the overdraft fees, low-to-zero interest they can get away with, etc.

A lot of the biggest, easiest wealth made in America is derived from screwing over poor people at scale / en masse. I highly recommend Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich for some pretty good examples of this.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is illegal (at least in some states) to use the card information for anything other than processing the payment. That is, I believe they cannot use it to track you and your purchase. This is one of the main reasons there are loyalty cards — to get you to explicitly consent to tracking. edit: If they are allowed to track based on credit card, this would be a good reason to use Apple Pay, or some other pay…

I see. So, Google's use of CC data to track whether their ads work [0] is illegal, huh? I find it hard to believe they would announce doing it if so. Edit: so you just want to hand over your info to Apple instead of some other big corporation? [0]: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/08/01/google_tr...

This goes nowhere. If you're using someone else's money to buy stuff, or a card that is a pointer through someone else's processing network, that someone will necessarily be able to see where it's being used.

You might as well ask for web servers to not see the IP address of people connecting to it.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"what I've bought at in the past year". They get so much more than that. If you use a credit card at the store, the record now knows about this card, and any other credit card you have ever used while using that rewards program. This can all then be connected to other databases that track personal credit card spending in similar ways. A surprisingly detailed profile is quite likely to be out there on all of us, even…

I believe it is illegal (at least in some states) to use the card information for anything other than processing the payment. That is, I believe they cannot use it to track you and your purchase. This is one of the main reasons there are loyalty cards — to get you to explicitly consent to tracking. edit: If they are allowed to track based on credit card, this would be a good reason to use Apple Pay, or some other pay…

Apple Pay does not generate a unique card number for every purchase. One number is generated when the card is added to Wallet. This seems to be a common misconception.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#86
post #30

unpaywalled mirror: http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/09/05/verizon-wants... I'm actually ok with this idea, because it introduces the concept of companies "paying" for your data. To me, that means a couple things: 1. People with privacy concerns can use verizon but _not_ participate in their data collection program. 2. It opens up the idea of a competitive market for your data. Google and others have gotten a…

Verizon is already being paid to provide you with access. So now on top of that they also want rather unfethered access to your online activity for which you might receive a small token in return, which may or may not be a reward you actually want. Your connection fees plus the amount of money theyll get for reselling your data isnt remotely evenly matched, theyre not really paying for anything. This is just another…

I think you mean unfettered, rather than unfethered, which I don't believe is a word.

I'm sorry to be that person.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#87
post #80

This sort of disgusting privacy intrusion plus the rising costs of smartphones and their associated data plans have me thinking that eventually we'll just reach a breaking point where people choose to go back to dumbphones. I'm already nearly at that point myself.

Depends on who "we" is. A point that political advocates (privacy, open source, anything really) tend to forget is that politics isn't even on most people's radar when making decisions about what widget to use. Doubly so when that political stance doesn't have any tangible impact on their lives. ("Google tracks you for ads!" "Okay, and?")

The number of people willing to forego a smartphone because of data collection is statistically insignificant.

Personally, I'm not bothered enough by Google's business plan to go through contortions, making my life more annoying just to avoid some nebulous, unrealistic dystopian hypothetical.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#88
post #49

> "Deli Meeks, a 26-year-old forklift operator in Atlanta, said he doesn't mind Verizon accessing his data." I am perfectly fine with this. One of the biggest issues people have had in recent years is the level of invasive practices companies have been using in the name of advertising. My current assumption is that yes, while it is a breach of privacy, the issue is that is was something I produced that I didn't get t…

> "Deli Meeks, a 26-year-old forklift operator in Atlanta, said he doesn't mind Verizon accessing his data." That's his prerogative but I wonder whether he truly understands what he is giving up? He is giving up identifiable ISP data which can be sold. That means his future employers, dating interest and even family members can potentially get access to his data.

That begins to pan more into the realm of maintaining a good online presence and why I advocate for stronger privacy policies. Online presence simply comes from educating people on what people can see and Privacy policies to dictate what I am willing to release for compensation. Finally, I'm willing to assume the data is somewhat sanitize to remove identifiable marks (again, that's a privacy policy issue).

If we extend the idea of data to include anything - my GPS data from my phone, heart rate via Fitbit, viewing habits; this is all data that we generate. Going back to my producer analogy, image if I was using a "Water-As-A-Service" company (WaaS) to water land I own; mind you, I'm not a farmer, I simply own this 'thing'. Now assume that WaaS has been taking anything that the grows on that land (say 'wild strawberries') without paying me and then selling it for another profit.

In this scenario, I'm upset as an individual because 1) I never gave permission to WaaS to take that product and 2) they are making money off of my hard work - they gave my a tool (water), but I did all the legwork to create the product.

In the same light, change water to cellular connection and strawberries to activity. Right now, we freely give our product away for free, which turns back to the story. I am willing to be compensated for my data. I'd prefer a better compensation model than "3 Months of HBO GO Free", but I look at this as a positive step in the right direction.

Furthermore, it could be used to incentive under represented statistical models. How a Caucasian male uses a system / service is probably a saturated market, but a Native American female model would be willing to pay more because that data is rarer. This can different for data point to data point, but now we're talking the economy of individual data and I'm not well versed enough in how that'd work.

Ultimately, I've accepted that in the current era, my data is out there. All it takes is one bad data breach and the goes any anonymity I've worked towards maintaining. Even to take a more cynical approach, I know Big Brother is watching - its simply too easy to do so. Its not a "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument, I just accept it as a consequence if I want to live in a digital world. However, I don't blindly accept this as there's nothing I can do, 1984 Orwellian times, but as a capitalistic viewpoint. I produce something, now pay me if you want it.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#89
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verizon is already being paid to provide you with access. So now on top of that they also want rather unfethered access to your online activity for which you might receive a small token in return, which may or may not be a reward you actually want. Your connection fees plus the amount of money theyll get for reselling your data isnt remotely evenly matched, theyre not really paying for anything. This is just another…

I think you mean unfettered, rather than unfethered, which I don't believe is a word. I'm sorry to be that person.

No worries, I don't actually mind. And you're right!

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is illegal (at least in some states) to use the card information for anything other than processing the payment. That is, I believe they cannot use it to track you and your purchase. This is one of the main reasons there are loyalty cards — to get you to explicitly consent to tracking. edit: If they are allowed to track based on credit card, this would be a good reason to use Apple Pay, or some other pay…

I see. So, Google's use of CC data to track whether their ads work [0] is illegal, huh? I find it hard to believe they would announce doing it if so. Edit: so you just want to hand over your info to Apple instead of some other big corporation? [0]: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/08/01/google_tr...

I have yet to be worried about Apple advertisements and tracking. Any reason I should be?
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