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Higher Education Erodes

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Re: Higher Education Erodes

#11

Post by baldfat »

notfromhere wrote: post #8
Multicomp wrote: post #2

Well duh. Between cliques, crazy parties, and general irresponsibility, I ended up treating getting my bachelor's degree as I treated my HS diploma: that place I have to go to for four years while avoiding just about every so-called 'social engagement' that takes place after 5pm. Of course students will need the requirements nerfed down to nothing - when only three or four other people besides me got enough sleep at…

that sounds like a terrible way to do college

I worked 3 years as a Resident Director. I blame the low academic standards for this way of college. People drop out of college just because they can't get to their seats for class on time and can't hand in assignments. The cost of failing to do these things don't really kick in federally till after their sophomore year.

I can't tell you how many people were dumbfounded that their 1.25 GPA meant they had to go to community college to bring up their GPA before they could continue the "College Life." Or they just bum around the college for 2 years + working a mind numbing job.

I have had a few success stories in my years in college life. I kind of hate seeing young adults throwing away and just wouldn't let their lack of life skills destroy their potential. It usually meant a meeting in my office where I have backing powder and hydrogenation peroxide and me knocking on their dorm door at 8 AM for a month.

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#12

Post by dforrestwilson »

program_whiz wrote: post #10

This trend is based in our culture's obsession with equality of outcomes. Rather than telling those who are struggling to change culture or virtue -- we assume the "system" is at fault and force a change there. As the author pointed out, HS graduation rate is the symptom not the cause to be treated. As an example, asians whether immigrant or American-born typically have the best credit, highest graduation rates, purs…

Within the context of a stable democracy founded upon a legacy of Judeo-Christian values which encourages individualism, yes this is true.

I think that's the winning combination personally.

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#13

Post by 5trokerac3 »

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #9

This is just really sad to me. The saddest thing - I can't even imagine a world where the current administration in power in the US gives a sh)t about this, at all. We're f)cked in a few years because other countries care so much more about the important things.

We've had decades to turn this around. Neither party gives a shit. In fact, they both directly benefit from a drop in critical thinking ability among the general populace.

I truly believe the next generation's elite will primarily be those whose parent's were smart enough and well-to-do enough to take them out of one size fits all public education and put them in Socratic, Montessori, or some other alternate school.

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#14

Post by pmoriarty »

program_whiz wrote: post #10

This trend is based in our culture's obsession with equality of outcomes. Rather than telling those who are struggling to change culture or virtue -- we assume the "system" is at fault and force a change there. As the author pointed out, HS graduation rate is the symptom not the cause to be treated. As an example, asians whether immigrant or American-born typically have the best credit, highest graduation rates, purs…

"we assume the "system" is at fault"

... which is, of course, inconceivable.

"Either you are racist and think "asians are better than everyone else", or you have to concede that culture and virtues are the cause"

Or might it be the likelihood that the Asians who are in the US in the first place tend to be a very tiny percentage of relatively fortunate families from their own societies back in Asia, and elites tend to perform better?

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#15

Post by qq66 »

taylodl wrote: post #3

Shouldn't the market take care of this? Apparently there are colleges willing to "dumb-down" their curriculum to maintain graduation rates, but those colleges will become a black mark on one's CV and so the good students would choose not to attend those colleges, right?

This is happening, but unfortunately information is not perfect (a random hiring manager doesn't know that Cal State is loosening requirements but Oregon State is not) so actually the brand value of all state and community colleges is decreasing, which will have the opposite to desired effect on social mobility. CUNY has probably graduated as many Nobel Laureates as MIT undergrad, but it will be tarred with the same brush of "the average college graduate isn't what he or she used to be."

A similar effect is happening in the US political arena where people are being called "-ist" for a wider range of transgressions than previously. Rather than increasing the political penalty for these offenses, the expansion of the terminology has actually weakened the associated opprobrium, because people think of being "-ist" as a less bad offense since so many more people seem to be doing it these days.

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#17

Post by jseliger »

I've written this before, but part of the problem is that "college" means such a wide array of institutions, experiences, and instruction that it's almost meaningless: https://jakeseliger.com/2014/04/27/paying-for-the-party-eliz... .

That being said, it's definitely true that the college system has evolved to perpetuate itself, as the author writes:

Cal State is setting an example for the re-definition of “college readiness” towards “willingness to sit tight and pay the cash.”

I also like to tell students that college is a multiplier of their own motivation and actions. If students don't read (and many apparently don't: https://jakeseliger.com/2017/08/28/igen-jean-m-twenge-the-ki...) then they aren't going to get that much out of college. A lot of their experience is up to them.

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#18

Post by jseliger »

taylodl wrote: post #3

Shouldn't the market take care of this? Apparently there are colleges willing to "dumb-down" their curriculum to maintain graduation rates, but those colleges will become a black mark on one's CV and so the good students would choose not to attend those colleges, right?

Shouldn't the market take care of this

In some ways I think it already has. I wouldn't look at a degree as a sign of fundamental competence and I don't think most other people would either. Maybe that's overly optimistic.

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#19

Post by thebiglebrewski »

5trokerac3 wrote: post #13
thebiglebrewski wrote: post #9

This is just really sad to me. The saddest thing - I can't even imagine a world where the current administration in power in the US gives a sh)t about this, at all. We're f)cked in a few years because other countries care so much more about the important things.

We've had decades to turn this around. Neither party gives a shit. In fact, they both directly benefit from a drop in critical thinking ability among the general populace. I truly believe the next generation's elite will primarily be those whose parent's were smart enough and well-to-do enough to take them out of one size fits all public education and put them in Socratic, Montessori, or some other alternate school.

...do you really think that neither party gives a shit though? These days I kind of find that hard to believe, at least as far as the people in the White House now...

Re: Higher Education Erodes

#20

Post by kenhwang »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #7
taylodl wrote: post #3

Shouldn't the market take care of this? Apparently there are colleges willing to "dumb-down" their curriculum to maintain graduation rates, but those colleges will become a black mark on one's CV and so the good students would choose not to attend those colleges, right?

>but those colleges will become a black mark on one's CV and so the good students would choose not to attend those colleges, right? How many colleges can you name off-the-cuff that you'd never hire from? Do you actively follow every college to figure out if/when they water down their requirements? There is no information exchange other than the press and word of mouth for what you're wanting the market to fix. The ot…

Easy, only hire from colleges that you know doesn't water down requirements.
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