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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#211

Post by peoplewindow »

te_chris wrote: post #196
peoplewindow wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't believe me, huh. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/15/recessions-h... "Recessions can hurt, but austerity kills" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/20/engels... "The victims of Grenfell Tower didn’t just die. Austerity, outsourcing and deregulation killed them" https://www.theguardian.com/membership/commentisfree/2017/ap... "The cause of death that dare not speak its name: austeri…

I don't get it, you don't like these articles because you find the idea that govt. negligence can actually kill people who rely on the govt. offensive?

You're changing the subject.

My original assertion was that there's nothing magic about taxes that makes them unusually civil, it's simply that austerity is not an issue in US politics because the government has never tried to balance its budget. I cited the UK as a counter example.

You suggested I had never engaged with their arguments because I described them as based in hatred.

I proved that my description of these opinions was entirely accurate. You can find endless articles like that in the left wing press, or banners at protests that say exactly the same thing. This resolved the point you raised.

Whether these articles have merit or not is irrelevant to my original point.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#212

Post by saint_fiasco »

oblib wrote: post #187

Good. I hope they stay isolated until they see some light or fade away. I moved right into the thick of them, 77% of my neighbors voted for Trump the "pussy grabber" who's had over 3000 lawsuits from small businesses trying to collect money on work they delivered, all just to spite "libtards" and after just a few years ago when they were yelling about how immoral "Gay Marriage" is and even voted for a State Constitut…

That's an interesting choice of metaphor. What is the point of yelling at a hurricane?

In more concrete terms, do you expect that isolating them will make them see the light? Isn't engaging them and talking to them respectfully more likely to make them change their mind?

I grant that hating and being angry is easier. But don't fool yourself and think that you are virtuous for doing so and that you should be emulated.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#213

Post by humanrebar »

Merad wrote: post #161
austenallred wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a small, deeply red town. I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically). The leadership at the company was very reasonable, but the politically active folks terrified me, and didn't just think that those that held conservative viewpoints were mi…

> I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically). As a liberal atheist who has spent most of his life in the deep red parts of the south, I can assure you that you're wrong.

I had plenty of liberal atheist friends in school in a small town. They were fine. A gay guy was a candidate for homecoming king, even.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#214

Post by threatofrain »

chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

What does conservative mean? Some people say that conservatism includes things like gun rights, support for anti-immigration and lower taxes. As well as Christian values, which for a decade or two, has meant something around abortion, homosexuals, and recently transgenders.

What are these viewpoints that are claimed to be conservative in nature? I have read the Texas GOP platform. Is that representative of conservatism?

https://www.texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/PERM-PLA...

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#215

Post by plandis »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #199
AndrewDucker wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vote to treat people badly is _absolutely_ a good reason to be angry at someone. If you're voting to take away people's healthcare, or to discriminate against them based on who they love, or their gender, then of course they are angry!

Nobody can tell you what to feel, and it's unfair to expect you to not feel angry about stuff that is important to you. But it's fair to expect that you won't get into a fistfight with someone just because they make you angry.

That's fair but as we keep seeing from radical Conservatives, you can and possibly will be attacked for holding certain views.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#216

Post by dragonwriter »

sp332 wrote: post #155
oh_sigh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, if you think that introducing more bias is a bad way to solve existing bias, you're a racist. You can always refer to the UK(a country that ended slavery before the USA and didn't need a civil war to do it) decided that affirmative action is illegal exactly because it is a racist policy.

It's already illegal in 1/3 of the USA right? California, Florida, Texas, Michigan, and Washington already banned it.

No, they didn't ban “affrimative action”; they banned a very small subset of the mechanisms that have been used for affirmative action in certain contexts.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#217

Post by 52-6F-62 »

vgh wrote: post #125
Shivetya wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

politics is used to divide people in this country, not bring them together. sadly it won't be fixed until we can find some means to secure a third or fourth party's ability to compete but Congress does its best to prevent any money from entering politics which does not support the norm

Neither of the two major presidential candidates last election came anywhere near halfway matching my stances on issues. Yet there was a third party (I guess sort of a fourth) whom I agreed with on quite a few things, as did many others. But those votes got drowned out by the "wasted vote" crowd. I'm curious if any nation has experimented with a hybrid of direct and representative democracies: people choose their sta…

... Canada?

While there still exists voting along party lines, having more than 2 major parties there tends to be a little more variety in official platforms.

Recently, Alberta which is traditionally more conservative voted for a Muslim mayor in Calgary, and the NDP (Canada's socialist democratic party) into provincial office. Even our Green party gained a seat in Victoria/Saanich (British Columbia) last election.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#218

Post by plandis »

ams6110 wrote: post #117
zimpenfish wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)

I'm conservative, I do not think less of anyone else as a human being (I may well think less of their opinions, actions, or behaviors, but that's not at all the same thing). Your viewpoint that "thinking less of others" is a "core" conservative value very much implies that you don't really know any conservatives, and are just parroting the party line from within your bubble.

I have quite a few gay friends who think a core conservative value is to oppress them. How could they not? The Republican Party to this day actively tries to strip them of rights.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#219

Post by [deleted] »

threatofrain wrote: post #214
chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

What does conservative mean? Some people say that conservatism includes things like gun rights, support for anti-immigration and lower taxes. As well as Christian values, which for a decade or two, has meant something around abortion, homosexuals, and recently transgenders. What are these viewpoints that are claimed to be conservative in nature? I have read the Texas GOP platform. Is that representative of conservati…

[deleted]

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#220

Post by ubertaco »

feedjoelpie wrote: post #145
ubertaco wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a two-way street. As a Christian, I get upset when I hear my employer promote Bhuddist values (inviting Bhuddist monks on-site to otherwise-nonreligious corporate events) while also parading their role in defeating legislation to protect religious clergy who hold traditionally-Christian beliefs from being sued over their beliefs. This communicates to me both "you're the enemy, and we are working hard to make…

A few things... * Your boss parading his religion around and making you feel othered, while probably legal, is uncool. * Though I would be remiss if I didn't point out that across America, it's by and large the Christian viewpoint that's flaunted at employees. I feel bad for you, but I'm also happy that you've been given an opportunity to understand why this is bad. * You're protected from being _discriminated agains…

1. Agreed

2. While I understand what you're trying to say, I don't think you'd be remiss, and in fact, I found it a bit presumptive to assume that I advocate for Christian viewpoints being "flaunted at employees" and that I somehow need "an opportunity to understand why this is bad" as though I didn't already.

3. While it's true that as a public secular institution, the company can't make hiring decisions based on religious beliefs, there appears to be no protection from being intentionally treated poorly on a systemic level (and no regard for "behaving" unless I wanted to pony up and lawyer up against my employer)

4. The law being "paraded" is the one that would have permitted religious clergy in religious institutions to make business decisions based on religious values (i.e. I can't sue a rabbi for refusing to host my pork BBQ event on Saturday night at a synagogue).

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