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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a two-way street. As a Christian, I get upset when I hear my employer promote Bhuddist values (inviting Bhuddist monks on-site to otherwise-nonreligious corporate events) while also parading their role in defeating legislation to protect religious clergy who hold traditionally-Christian beliefs from being sued over their beliefs. This communicates to me both "you're the enemy, and we are working hard to make…

I actually think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to be uncomfortable with, and probably warrants a chat with a higher-up or an anonymous complaint.

Probably just as likely to get ubertaco fired as to make any change.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#142

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

Back in university, I had a flatmate that was pro-Bush. He wasn't unintelligent. He was getting his masters. He was a good guy and generally progressive in his views. He actually had pretty well laid out arguments as far as what he saw as best for the country and policy with the continuation of the Bush administration over Kerry.

Both myself and my other housemates didn't understand it at the time, but I didn't lose respect for him as a person. In the most recent election, I've come to at least understand more of his views. I wish I could talk to him about it, but he passed away a few years ago.

I currently hold a controversial opinion myself, that the parties are essentially the same and the elections simply do not matter. I do not think anything would be different under either potential candidate. You can say some of the social issues would be affected (trans people in the military), but if you focus on those, you view the current government as just stupid. But they're not. They knew banning trans people would cause outrage. You add a stupid reason, and you need to realize they knew that was an intentionally stupid reason, and people focus their hate. It is literally the 2 minute hate from Orwell's 1984, except it's been around for over a decade and it's now the 24/7 hate from all the news networks.

http://fightthefuture.org/articles/the-fallout-of-american-a...

In big tech areas, I cannot get over the number of people who would say, "No there is a difference [between the parties]!" whenever I expressed this view. Over 60 million people voted for Trump. That doesn't mean those 60+ million are uneducated or stupid or racist. Over 60 million people voted for Clinton. That doesn't mean those 60+ million are compromising or ignorant. Over 40% of those eligible chose not to vote. They all get clumped together, even though their reasons are greatly varied.

And keep in mind, there is a 2014 Princeton Study that shows the the opinions of the average voter in America have a statically insignificant, near zero, effect on all policy decisions (unless you're part of the top 10% of income earners):

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

America, and even many European nations, are becoming increasingly polarized. But human beings don't fit into two categories. There is no real left or right. Someone might be supportive of gay rights, be for gun control and yet still think trans people suffer from mental illness. Another might be against gun control and affirmative action, and have other libertarian-ish beliefs, yet believe strongly in public transportation and universal health care.

We do not fit into the nice cylinders of political categories, and we certainly don't fit into the false dichotomy of the left/right. But we're taught that's where the line is, that we have to take sides, and keep fighting each other instead of the real players, the _eminence grise_ of Exxon, BP, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Boeing and all the other players who really control what's going on and who are systematically implementing policy that increases tension, increases conflict and escalates war throughout the would.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than the golden calves US libertarian society has set up is shunned This doesn't make any sense to me - as an (extreme) libertarian, I see very little progress on that front. The Democrats and Republicans have each used the libertarian "brand" when it has suited them, but neither have implemented any actual libertarian positions in my lifetime, at least not that I can recall. Out of curiosity, are you perhaps viewi…

No, he looks at it like left and right. From a European perspective American politics are simple: Republicans: extreme right (slight adjustment: closed borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons) Democrats: extreme right (slight adjustment: (ever so slightly more) open borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons) Libertarians: extreme right Even the bloody US communist party does not want to abolish ma…

It's not that easy. Especially when it comes to illegals or criminal immigrants, the democrat position would be the extreme left in Europe. Closed border, for example, is something all European parties but the extreme left could agree on. Deporting illegal criminals is something even the moderate left supports, and support for deporting non-criminal illegals is still pretty widely supported (it doesn't happen that often mostly because of technicalities, like the country of origin not wanting their citizens back). Really controversial is only deporting legal immigrants who committed a crime. That's something most parties on the left wouldn't support.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware of what you're doing and the reactions it will incite. What do you think happens to parked cars with MAGA stickers in California? Well you don't have to wonder, there are more than enough "social experiments" on youtube documenting this subject matter.

"You are aware of what you're doing and the reactions it will incite." Kind of like the girl who wears a mini-skirt and gets raped?

Why do you jump to that when we're talking about reactions to bumper stickers expressing a political point of view?

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#145

If your politics, or the beliefs of those who share your politics, make your coworkers feel hurt, scared, and angry, then I see absolutely no reason to bring them to your workplace. It's basic human interaction 101. And sorry, but insisting that people grow a thicker skin won't work, because that's not how people operate. I discuss controversial topics in person with my close friends, and I don't feel any poorer for…

This is a two-way street. As a Christian, I get upset when I hear my employer promote Bhuddist values (inviting Bhuddist monks on-site to otherwise-nonreligious corporate events) while also parading their role in defeating legislation to protect religious clergy who hold traditionally-Christian beliefs from being sued over their beliefs. This communicates to me both "you're the enemy, and we are working hard to make…

A few things...

* Your boss parading his religion around and making you feel othered, while probably legal, is uncool.

* Though I would be remiss if I didn't point out that across America, it's by and large the Christian viewpoint that's flaunted at employees. I feel bad for you, but I'm also happy that you've been given an opportunity to understand why this is bad.

* You're protected from being _discriminated against_ based on his religious beliefs.

* That law being "paraded" is the one that protects you from your boss discriminating against you based on his religious beliefs.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#146

Honestly, I am not the least surprised. I don't know if anyone is really. Because never before has there been so much hate towards simply holding different opinions. People actively share "if you like x you can remove me as your friend" shit on facebook, companies fire people for expressing their political views and media companies "choose a side" more then ever. And don't tell me Google isn't. Just look at Youtube w…

If someone is "simply holding different opinions" that people should have lesser rights, or be treated differently because of how they were born, then we shouldn't really be surprised that people are upset by that. I'm not seeing hatred towards people for arguing over correct levels of import taxes. I'm seeing it because they're backing politicians who are actively causing harm to real human beings.

> If someone is "simply holding different opinions" that people should have lesser rights, or be treated differently because of how they were born, then we shouldn't really be surprised that people are upset by that.

It's almost like you are purposely trying to rile people up

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#147

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

> Go to Texas and I'm sure you can find the opposite if you are looking for it

I went to Texas and wasn't looking for it - but the first bar I walked into had photos of Obama and Hillary duct taped to the urinal for people to aim at :P

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#148
post #61
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason why voting machines have curtains. If you resent people judging you for how you vote, just don't tell them.

Don't ask. Don't tell. It wasn't a great policy before. It's not great now. Hiding who you are to avoid ridicule doesn't solve the problem. If the majority opinion is safe to express, but your opinion isn't, then being forced to hide doesn't actually solve the problem. Even if you hide your views, you may get asked why you don't support the majority's viewpoints.

I see it less as a "policy" and more of an issue of maturity and professionalism. If you are going to take a controversial stance on something you have to accept that you might not be Mr. Joe Popular after that. This is true at work and in life. So you either let it go or get okay with being "that weirdo."

As others have said, it goes both ways: liberal in a red state, conservative in a blue state.

At the end of the day, the people you meet at work are not there because they want to be friends. They're there for one reason: to make money. If you respect other people's boundaries then they respect you.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)

Actually, most of us conservatives have a core stance of "don't trust anything you care about to the government." Nothing more, nothing less. Liberals love to parade out the worst of us because then no "reasonable" person wants to be on that team. To be honest, I don't want to be on that team, but I'm not going to give up because I really believe there's a better way. Better to vote my conscience and try to improve t…

> Liberals love to parade out the worst of us

The Republican Party.

> try to improve the party reputation

I'm afraid you've got quite a way to go there.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is "simply holding different opinions" that people should have lesser rights, or be treated differently because of how they were born, then we shouldn't really be surprised that people are upset by that. I'm not seeing hatred towards people for arguing over correct levels of import taxes. I'm seeing it because they're backing politicians who are actively causing harm to real human beings.

I'm not seeing hatred towards people for arguing over correct levels of import taxes Sure you are. You see someone vote for Trump and immediately assume it must be because they're an evil, ethically flawed person who inexplicably hates love, sunshine and puppies, whereas perhaps they mostly care about taxes. You even did it in this post. Your thinking is knee jerk and shallow, and it's people like you that are causin…

They're bringing drugs,' crime and are 'rapists'.

knock the crap out of them …. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees

You didn't vote for Trump over the correct level of import taxes.

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