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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#161

Post by Merad »

austenallred wrote: post #108
chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

I moved to San Francisco from a small, deeply red town. I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically). The leadership at the company was very reasonable, but the politically active folks terrified me, and didn't just think that those that held conservative viewpoints were mi…

> I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically).

As a liberal atheist who has spent most of his life in the deep red parts of the south, I can assure you that you're wrong.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#162

Post by saosebastiao »

I've voted for GWB twice, Obama once and opted out for his reelection. I consider myself an overall conservative, albeit fairly liberal on some issues. I too have faced condescension and derision for some viewpoints I've expressed, and that is annoying and I think it is a general problem with US politics.

But Trump is different. He's incompetent. He's hotheaded. He's terrible for diplomacy, and has alienated many of our allies. He's an advocate of sexual assault. He's an advocate of physical assault on immigrants. He's an implicit advocate of white supremacy. He can't keep his house in order. He colluded with Russia to manipulate the election in his favor. He has used his office for personal gain. He's the most evil president we've had since Andrew Jackson.

If you can't understand why people are treating you so badly for political opinions, maybe it has less to do with you being a conservative and far more to do with being a supporter of a vile, reprehensible, defective human on the world's biggest power trip.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#163

Post by rainbowmverse »

jcranmer wrote: post #138
tboyd47 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason why voting machines have curtains. If you resent people judging you for how you vote, just don't tell them.

Except sometimes it's public information. Brendan Eich was pilloried not for telling people how he voted, but for having made a contribution to an unpopular cause several years past.

There's no value in dredging this back up. People are pretty set in their opinions on it. You're not going to be convined that what he did was worse than just having an opinion. No one on the other side will be convinced donating to a campaign of hate against them is harmless.

You already see why posting that was a bad idea because you're primed to argue, even though you know it won't go anywhere.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#164

Post by ams6110 »

snuxoll wrote: post #70
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #10

Can't we just keep politics out of the workplace? Who really wants to sit next to the guy who's going to spend a half an hour telling me about my company's “social justice agenda”?

I agree, I avoid talking politics or religion in the workplace. For some people it’s difficult, because who they voted for in the last election or things that happen at church are part of their personal identity - and I get it, but you should keep it to yourself when interacting with people you work with (this is why I have a strict policy about keeping anyone I work with in a professional relationship only - we work…

Exactly my take. Work is work. Keep that separate from your political, religious, and social life.

That's the reason that I never attend work social events outside of work hours (Christmas parties, etc). If nothing else it's an unpaid imposition on my free time.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#165

Post by bsenftner »

vorotato wrote: post #110
classybull wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to Godwin it or anything, but... Wasn't the passivity and meekness of the opposition the exact reason fascists were able to rise relatively easily in the intrawar period? Personally, I think the concept that there aren't ideas worth throwing a punch over is equally as repugnant as saying you should punch anyone you disagree with.

The position "Your people shouldn't exist", or "Your people shouldn't be in this country" to be specific. Tolerance to all but the intolerant. This is because if we tolerate the intolerant, they'll just eliminate tolerance, and then nobody will get to express their views.

You describe the Paradox of Tolerance: for a tolerant society to exist, it must be intolerant towards intolerance, or the intolerant slowly dominate.

This is the paradox enabling many to blindly say Antifa is a racist or fascist organization. No, they are the intolerant side of tolerance laying down the law. Without them, any tolerant society devolves slowly to fascism.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#166

Post by ythn »

koolba wrote: post #84
nxsynonym wrote: post #19

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their comments, he’s decided it’s not worth engaging, adding “I don’t want to be known as that guy who wants to argue with everybody.” As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politi…

> As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politics. If you fall in line with the "right" (left) side, you are allowed to say any number of disparaging, mean, hateful, or ignorant comments without fear of consequence - as long as it's aimed at the political right-wing. If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views,…

> I like to think of it like weak minded people who love to dish out insults but accuse you of being the most indecent person on the planet if you repeat their exact words back to them.

Yeah, but you'll always have rationalization on why one side thinks it's okay: "It's okay in my case because I'm intolerant of intolerance" "It's okay in my case because I'm bigoted against bigotry"

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#167

Post by zimpenfish »

jfk13 wrote: post #103
zimpenfish wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)

What a narrow-minded parody -- no, perhaps "deliberate misrepresentation" would be more correct -- of what "conservative" means.

https://www.gop.com/platform/

> the cornerstone of the family is natural marriage, the union of one man and one woman.

Thinking less of LGBTQ people.

> American taxpayers should not be forced to fund abortion.

Thinking less of women by denying them bodily autonomy.

It's all there, written down, in their own damned party manifesto.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#168

Post by tristor »

zimpenfish wrote: post #53
nxsynonym wrote: post #19

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their comments, he’s decided it’s not worth engaging, adding “I don’t want to be known as that guy who wants to argue with everybody.” As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politi…

> If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)

" (which is the core conservative stance.)"

Except that it isn't. People conflate all sorts of ideas about particular issues with the larger overarching political ideology. It's entirely possible to be conservative, be pro-gay marriage, pro abortion, pro legalization of marijuana, etc. There are some specific issues which the conservative ideology does fall squarely on, such as a resounding no to universal healthcare, but these are few and far between.

The conservative ideology in the most simplistic terms is "a smaller central government with less power is a better government". Modern conservative and liberal ideologies are nothing more than an extension of federalism and anti-federalism from the founding of the nation. Conflating this ideology with some of the worst people who claim it is unfair and divisive without cause or care.

This, in fact, is the exact thing the person you're responding to is pointing out. You are claiming conservative = "a belief in punitive actions against marginalized members of society" (paraphrasing you slightly for clarity). This simply isn't true, by any measure. It's a nice rhetorical soundbite to raise the ire of your political fellows as a clarion call, but it's not factually accurate and espousing this viewpoint about conservatives normalizes and encourages the type of political divisiveness we are seeing today.

Fun story, if we go by the last 5 years (honestly if we go by the last 100 years, but that's a deeper discussion about ideology shifts related to specific key issues) the majority of political violence occurring in the US is being done in the name of liberal ideologies, with much irony I presume. This very position you are putting forth is actually rather anti-liberal, but it's not conservative either. As a shock to all, there are more than two sides to a cube.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#169

Post by djsumdog »

dbingham wrote: post #89
staticelf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is harm? Lowering taxes could for example cause a lot of harm too indirectly if those taxes went to something important. I don't like religion for example and would like organized religion to be illegal in my country. If I went on TV and said this I bet this would be a very unpopular opinion and people would most likely send me tons of death threats. I think this mentality is stupid and if you are upset the corr…

Well, to offer one clear example of harm, we have Nazis openly marching in the streets and arguing for racial cleansing of the US. As someone of Jewish decent, I find that pretty directly threatening. Given where those arguments have lead before -- the holocaust -- is allowing people to advocate for those viewpoints truly harmless?

I hate to call Godwin's law on this, but this argument is descending in that direction.

And keep in mind, all the people who profited off that war: IBM who made the punch cards to track those interned, Ford motors who built the rail tracks for concentration camps, Ford himself who had his employees hand out anti-semetic propaganda, Prescot Bush/American Standard Oil who sold oil to both sides .. all these companies funded and benefited greatly from the results of that conflict.

By focusing on the Nazis you ignore the fact that wars needs funding. Few of those who funded and profited from that conflict were ever held accountable.

Modern neo-Nazis are the modern boogieman. They make us afraid, but unless they are funded, their reach is quite limited. They are loud, but easily ignored. Those who give them a voice, news and media outlets, do so to profit from the readership.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#170

Post by Eric_WVGG »

chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

As a theoretical coworker of yours, my reaction would depend a lot on which vote you were talking about.

In 00 I thought Bush voters were just sort of clods, hopelessly partisans with a poor understanding of the dangers of nepotism and monarchy. (I thought the same about Clinton voters in 08 and much of 16, to be fair)

In 04, Bush voters were supporting a guy who responded to the 9/11 attacks by invading _the wrong country_ (secular Hussein working with bin Ladin? honestly), and okaying the torture of human beings for information. You can’t chalk this up to “some people like chocolate, others vanilla,” Abu Ghraib doesn’t fit under a comfy blanket.

If you had admitted voting for his re-election to me at lunch I would have gotten up and left the table without saying a word.

((Not that it matters, but I grew up in Montana, I understand conservatives and conservativism))

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