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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#131

Post by romanovcode »

diego_moita wrote: post #28

I don't understand why is this surprising. Has there ever been any group of primates/hominids where deviating behavior isn't frowned upon? Every group prizes social cohesion. When a behavior looks threatening to that cohesion it is a natural defense for the group to isolate such threat. It is a necessary part of its survival, like an organism reacting to parasites, infections or offending threats. This reaction even…

The problem might be the hypocrisy of the situation a.k.a. Free speech until you say something I don't like.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#132

Post by te_chris »

Why do these over-educated conspiracy theorists keep getting all this media space to pretend they're marginalised? Seriously, complaining about a "social justice agenda" and political oppression while your side controls all 3 branches of US federal govt., a bunch of the state govt. and, as an added bonus, faces weak political opposition seems to be the high point of self-indulgence or, perhaps, 'snowflakeness'.

Seriously, if your whole cause is just a protest movement to complain about how other people don't agree with you or respect you, even once you hold power, what's the point of your politics?

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#133

Post by staticelf »

dbingham wrote: post #89
staticelf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is harm? Lowering taxes could for example cause a lot of harm too indirectly if those taxes went to something important. I don't like religion for example and would like organized religion to be illegal in my country. If I went on TV and said this I bet this would be a very unpopular opinion and people would most likely send me tons of death threats. I think this mentality is stupid and if you are upset the corr…

Well, to offer one clear example of harm, we have Nazis openly marching in the streets and arguing for racial cleansing of the US. As someone of Jewish decent, I find that pretty directly threatening. Given where those arguments have lead before -- the holocaust -- is allowing people to advocate for those viewpoints truly harmless?

Yes because then you can easily break them down by showing people that those people are scumbags. Otherwise you will only see increased support if you do not let them express their opinions.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#134

Post by kbsletten »

zimpenfish wrote: post #53
nxsynonym wrote: post #19

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their comments, he’s decided it’s not worth engaging, adding “I don’t want to be known as that guy who wants to argue with everybody.” As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politi…

> If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)

Actually, most of us conservatives have a core stance of "don't trust anything you care about to the government." Nothing more, nothing less. Liberals love to parade out the worst of us because then no "reasonable" person wants to be on that team. To be honest, I don't want to be on that team, but I'm not going to give up because I really believe there's a better way. Better to vote my conscience and try to improve the party reputation buy being a good neighbor than give in so the McCarthys don't accuse me of being racist.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#135

Post by peoplewindow »

billsmithaustin wrote: post #35

Well sure, but this isn't just a tech thing. At conservative petroleum companies, those who disagree on politics say they're isolated too.

Is that correct? Can you cite that?

I can imagine they may feel isolated in the sense that their views are not very common. But isolated in the sense of, if I let on I voted for Obama I will get fired? I am very skeptical of that.

My experience of these issues is that one part of society has become exceptionally intolerant far beyond other parts. I do not hear stories of conservative companies engaging in mini civil wars and retribution firings over liberal memos.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#136

Post by [deleted] »

classybull wrote: post #111
api wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to ask: what happens in small town Texas if you are an atheist, don't support the war, support a woman's right to have an abortion, etc.? It's been my experience that each region has its dominant sociopolitical culture and that there are always people who are unable to see beyond that and who become angry when confronted by anything other.

I grew up in small(ish) town Texas with those exact viewpoints. I wouldn't say that my viewpoint was exactly ostracized, but it was definitely "odd" and Other. I never really suffered any physical intimidation for my viewpoints, but that's probably because I'm a giant ogre that people tend not to feel like they can mess with. But I did have my fair share of heated arguments when refusing to pray before a football gam…

[deleted]

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#137

Post by bsenftner »

anbende wrote: post #45
brookside wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That anger could be reasonable or not, depending on your opinions.

Anger at another perspective might be argued to be reasonable. There are some pretty abhorrent perspectives in the world. Getting into a fistfight with someone because they hold a different point of view, no matter how heinous, is absolutely and unequivocally unacceptable. The idea that there are points of view (not actions or laws but ideas) that warrant violence is a large and growing problem.

I doubt they got into a fist fight over their opinions, the fist fight erupted over their delivery of their opinions and the lack of respect each gave the others' opinion.

Holding different opinions is natural to everyone. It is the treatment of how one listens, your body language while listening, the amount of time given after one stops speaking before a counterpoint is given. Fights erupt when people do not listen, and of course when one side can't articulate their position and the conversation devolves from mature.

Two respectful mature adults can talk about any painful subject. If you can't, that's an indication of a need to mature, either yourself or your attitude towards others.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#138

Post by jcranmer »

tboyd47 wrote: post #40
chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

There is a reason why voting machines have curtains. If you resent people judging you for how you vote, just don't tell them.

Except sometimes it's public information. Brendan Eich was pilloried not for telling people how he voted, but for having made a contribution to an unpopular cause several years past.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#139

Post by sp332 »

fhood wrote: post #27
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, if you think that introducing more bias is a bad way to solve existing bias, you're a racist. Perhaps instead of labeling people as "x, y, and z" much like war propaganda has done through the years, we should try to understand where they are coming from?

Haha, exactly! You know what promotes discourse effectively? Calling people racist.

The conversations on race I've seen recently have been more about institutionalized racism than personally attacking someone for being "a racist". So if one person advocates for a policy that would disadvantage minorities, someone else might point out that it's racist without ascribing some irredeemable evil to the person.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#140

Post by peoplewindow »

archagon wrote: post #46
LyndsySimon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your politics, or the beliefs of those who share your politics, make your coworkers feel hurt, scared, and angry, then I see absolutely no reason to bring them to the workplace. On one hand, I would argue that getting angry because someone doesn't share your views is unprofessional. On the other, I would like to point out that the point of this article is that this is a one-way street: If Progressives experience…

Well — yeah, that's how it works when most people around you share certain opinions. You can't change human nature all by your lonesome. You certainly wouldn't find me chatting about the Clintons, universal healthcare, etc. in a conservative office. (Or any office, for that matter.)

It's not even clear that "most" people in tech firms are liberal. Rather, liberals feel it's OK to talk about their personal political views in public all the time and to throw massive tantrums / try and get opposing voices fired.

Even if just 10% of a company was like that, unless management intervened to stop it, that'd be enough to ensure they were the only voices that got heard regardless of the true balances.

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