A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance • Hacker News Board

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#91

Post by Retric » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 1:31 AM UTC

cthalupa wrote: post #24

winter_blue wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. That's really spot on. We could have an incredibly fulfilling life while living frugally. Writing books, making art, creating new software, doing research, etc. Creating and understanding yourself better can be healing. Physical possessions like this pen is…

>making art >this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless. I hope you can see the contradiction here. These pens are the result of skills honed over time by people who are masters of their craft. These aren't mass produced items, and they will tailor basically every aspect of the pen to the customer. You're paying for the artistry, quality, and customization. These things are more expensive when not mass produc…

I find such things horribly wasteful even if I had unlimited disposable income. Run out of reasonable purchases and you can always just donate the rest.

Remember, it's not expensive because that's what it costs to make it's expensive because that's what it takes to sell them.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#92

Post by djg3 » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 1:36 AM UTC

arkitaip wrote: post #40

dizzystar wrote: post #12

Oh my, this brings back memories that still impact me today. Growing up, finding that perfect pen was sort of a hobby and artform. I suppose part of it was growing up in the 90s, trying to do Pen & Ink drawing, calligraphy, and writing all day. The current analog is searching for the perfect keyboard. While wasteful on first blush, it truly is the most utilitarian decision you can make when measured for optimizing to…

"The current analog is searching for the perfect keyboard." Sounds like we have been on a similar journey (typing this on a Corsair K95). I still enjoy finding a really good pen, but they rarely cost more than 10-20 usd and I mostly use them for sketching UI. If only there was a keyboard equivalent to The Pilot G2 0.7.

That's a great pen. I moved from that to the V5 rt 0.5 and haven't looked back.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#93

Post by DiabloD3 » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:06 AM UTC

arkitaip wrote: post #40

dizzystar wrote: post #12

Oh my, this brings back memories that still impact me today. Growing up, finding that perfect pen was sort of a hobby and artform. I suppose part of it was growing up in the 90s, trying to do Pen & Ink drawing, calligraphy, and writing all day. The current analog is searching for the perfect keyboard. While wasteful on first blush, it truly is the most utilitarian decision you can make when measured for optimizing to…

"The current analog is searching for the perfect keyboard." Sounds like we have been on a similar journey (typing this on a Corsair K95). I still enjoy finding a really good pen, but they rarely cost more than 10-20 usd and I mostly use them for sketching UI. If only there was a keyboard equivalent to The Pilot G2 0.7.

I've never understood why people like G2s. They always feel a bit scratchy to me. I prefer 207 0.38s, which are about as scratchy as G2 0.7s, but with a much thinner tip (207 0.7s are much smoother than both 207 0.38s and G2 0.7s).

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#94

Post by Animats » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:20 AM UTC

That's an ad. Don't know how they got it into Bloomberg, but that's an ad.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#95

Post by Animats » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:23 AM UTC

dizzystar wrote: post #12

Oh my, this brings back memories that still impact me today. Growing up, finding that perfect pen was sort of a hobby and artform. I suppose part of it was growing up in the 90s, trying to do Pen & Ink drawing, calligraphy, and writing all day. The current analog is searching for the perfect keyboard. While wasteful on first blush, it truly is the most utilitarian decision you can make when measured for optimizing to…

Having inked in mechanical drawings, even with good Rapidograph pens, it sucked.

There's a reason that AutoCAD was incredibly successful in the 1980s. Any CAD system was at least an order of magnitude faster than pen and ink drafting.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#96

Post by mcguire » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:34 AM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #19

Nakaya pens are prime example of Veblen good - luxury goods for which the quantity demanded increases as the price increases. The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. Of course Nakaya pens are good writing pens, but the quality of pen as a tool levels around $50-$70 price mark. Extra is just collect…

TWSBI is Taiwanese (or perhaps Chinese), and have a certain reputation for structural failures particularly involving the section. Of course, I have a Vac700 because, hey, vacuum filler.

It's hard to beat a Pilot Metropolitan at ~$15 (which is a Japanese pen), although many higher-end pens are prettier (and I tend to prefer lighter pens). But the Parker Vacuumatic is the best looking pen ever made.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#97

Post by mcguire » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:41 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #91

cthalupa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>making art >this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless. I hope you can see the contradiction here. These pens are the result of skills honed over time by people who are masters of their craft. These aren't mass produced items, and they will tailor basically every aspect of the pen to the customer. You're paying for the artistry, quality, and customization. These things are more expensive when not mass produc…

I find such things horribly wasteful even if I had unlimited disposable income. Run out of reasonable purchases and you can always just donate the rest. Remember, it's not expensive because that's what it costs to make it's expensive because that's what it takes to sell them.

You could say the same thing about most other art and decorative object, if you don't find them attractive. I would tend to value Warhols and Pollocks in terms of their kindling ability, myself.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#98

Post by mcguire » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:45 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #67

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the desire to climb the status ladder by purchasing conspicuously expensive, useless commodities is generated by a pretty deformed set of social relations. It is a product of a very shallow capitalist culture, and has the effect of wasting productive capacity that could in the counter-factual be used to help people who need it. It's also philosophy 101: self-realisation is who you are and not what y…

> The point is that the desire to climb the status ladder by purchasing conspicuously expensive, useless commodities is generated by a pretty deformed set of social relations. It is a product of a very shallow capitalist culture I disagree. People liked rare and expensive things in all cultures since forever -- from ancient Egypt and Greece, to African tribes to Polynesian island nations. What's unique in modern capi…

Attempting to climb the status ladder with a Nakaya or Namiki Maki-e (http://www.pilot-namiki.com/en/) would probably be counter productive. It generally helps if the people you are trying to impress recognize what you're carrying.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#99

Post by mcguire » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 2:52 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #81

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never claimed that 'owning a pen is vain'. I said that one can only understand its cultural significance through careful sociological reflection. That is a truism to me. "If any such claim relies on ethnographic or sociological studies, then wouldn't it be appropriate to cite those when making such a claim?" I think you might have wrong end of the stick. I have no idea if there are any studies on the cultural capit…

When you buy something, part of the money you forfeit is used to pay for the resources used (including labor) and the rest is profit. Only the first part is actually negative for the world, the second is merely an accounting line, a delegation of some of your power to someone else. As these pens are likely to have a huge profit margin, the actual negative impact is small, and most of the money remains, ready to be us…

Wait, paying for resources and labor is "negative for the world"?

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#100

Post by mcguire » Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 3:04 AM UTC

tachion wrote: post #25

What other quality pen could one recommend if I would like to get one and not spend a fortune on ones like these? By no means they look and feel probably great, but I'm simply not in their target market. However, from my young years I remember owning few Parker pens, few Pelikan and one or two Waterman. I remember enjoying ones with a 'buttery smooth' writing feeling most (don't really know how to describe it other w…

Check Goulet Pens (https://www.gouletpens.com/) --- there should be a fair amount of information around there and they have a great series of YouTube videos.

Recent Parker fountain pens are pretty meh, in my opinion. Pelican has a good line, as do a number of Japanese makers (Pilot and Sailor are two). And here's my ad for my favorite current American maker, Franklin-Christoph (http://www.franklin-christoph.com/). If you have a pen show nearby, they'll probably have a big booth where you can try all of their pens, all of their nibs, and get one tuned by their tame nibmeister, Mike Masuyama. Not terribly expensive, either.

Then there's a world of Chinese and Indian manufacturers. Whoo. Let's not go there.

You will find very few good pens involving wood---it's not a great material---in fact, none, except for kits from new wood turners. Those are cheap brass pens with an expensive decorative wooden tube glued on.