A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance • Hacker News Board

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#51

Post by manarth » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #46

manarth wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical possessions like this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless. Have you thought this through, to the point where you have a cut-off? Is it the cheapest? Is a 12-cent biro vain, because there's a 10-cent biro? Is it a $10 fountain pen, because you could have bought a cheap BIC? Is a $30 fountain pen OK, but a $50 fountain pen is shallow and meaningless? Where do you draw the line?

There is no cut-off line because symbolic capital is not something that has a mathematical formula. The ways in which people express status varies from social group to group, and from situation to situation. The idea that a claim is only valid if it is a closed proposition that applies under all circumstances is a bad one. You need to undertake an ethnography, sociological study, etc., to understand how commodities f…

  The ways in which people express status varies from social group to group

So does this notion only apply to people who demonstrate this status? Does it apply to someone who buys an expensive fountain pen, keeps it in their desk drawer, and uses it to write, but doesn't talk/boast about it?

It seems a bit of a sweeping statement to claim that owning a pen is vain, and could use a bit more clarification/justification to show the basis for making a claim like that. If any such claim relies on ethnographic or sociological studies, then wouldn't it be appropriate to cite those when making such a claim?

Without that, such a claim could justifiably be described as reverse snobbery.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#52

Post by foopod » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

lytfyre wrote: post #29

tachion wrote: post #25

What other quality pen could one recommend if I would like to get one and not spend a fortune on ones like these? By no means they look and feel probably great, but I'm simply not in their target market. However, from my young years I remember owning few Parker pens, few Pelikan and one or two Waterman. I remember enjoying ones with a 'buttery smooth' writing feeling most (don't really know how to describe it other w…

I'd suggest trying out the Pilot Metropolitan, in a Medium nib. It's not an _Amazing_ pen, but it's got a nice solid brass body, the quality control is very consistent), it's a nice consistent writer, and they sell on Amazon for ~$12. It's my usual recommendation for a "gateway" pen.

I would second this, awesome value for money. This pen won't let you down.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#53

Post by phongngtuan » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #45

KC8ZKF wrote: post #6

I enjoy a good fountain pen. If you are interested in an inexpensive practical fountain pen, you should look into the Lamy Safari. It is easy to maintain, writes smoothly, and feels good in the hand. It is my every day pen. Quick drying "document" inks are also good for everyday use. They don't fade or smear.

Question for the Lamy and TWSBI users: Does it work as an "in-your-pocket" pen? In other words, can I use it on the go, or is it meant to be kept at a desk?

In short, yes. Both are very dry with extra fine nib i.e. less ink on paper and dry very fast, both are affordable and you won't mind having on scratch on. I might want to consider Pilot metropolitan too.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#54

Post by mrob » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:08 PM UTC

ijonas wrote: post #49

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question for the Lamy and TWSBI users: Does it work as an "in-your-pocket" pen? In other words, can I use it on the go, or is it meant to be kept at a desk?

I’ve got both and they’re both excellent workhorses. I use Lamy mostly with Twsbi as alternatives for different inks. Paper is a bigger issue with fountain pens. Avoid Moleskine, choose Rhodia.

The importance of paper quality depends on which ink you're using. I like Noodler's Black, because it writes well even on cheap paper. It starts reliably and it doesn't feather (spread horizontally) or bleed through the paper easily. I've tried many other inks, trading samples with other fountain pen users, and I never found anything else so trouble-free.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#55

Post by glormph » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:12 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #42

Moru wrote: post #36

I believe kids in Germany are still learning to write with fountain-pens.

Everybody should learn to write using either fountain pen or at least good gel ink pen (like 3-5€ Pilot G-2 gel ink pen). Using standard ballpoint pen makes you hate handwriting. The idea of fountain pen is to put the pen down on the paper and move it around without the need to press the pen against the paper. Invention of ballpoint pen was move backwards in ergonomy and most people don't realize that this happened,…

Thank you, I had to scroll down to this comment to realize why people cared about fountain pens. I think I have without knowing it preferred pencils, and the use/availability ratio of pens in my home/workplace is so low that I have never thought of buying one.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#56

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:15 PM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #46

manarth wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical possessions like this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless. Have you thought this through, to the point where you have a cut-off? Is it the cheapest? Is a 12-cent biro vain, because there's a 10-cent biro? Is it a $10 fountain pen, because you could have bought a cheap BIC? Is a $30 fountain pen OK, but a $50 fountain pen is shallow and meaningless? Where do you draw the line?

There is no cut-off line because symbolic capital is not something that has a mathematical formula. The ways in which people express status varies from social group to group, and from situation to situation. The idea that a claim is only valid if it is a closed proposition that applies under all circumstances is a bad one. You need to undertake an ethnography, sociological study, etc., to understand how commodities f…

[deleted]

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#57

Post by Emma_Goldman » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:16 PM UTC

manarth wrote: post #51

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no cut-off line because symbolic capital is not something that has a mathematical formula. The ways in which people express status varies from social group to group, and from situation to situation. The idea that a claim is only valid if it is a closed proposition that applies under all circumstances is a bad one. You need to undertake an ethnography, sociological study, etc., to understand how commodities f…

The ways in which people express status varies from social group to group So does this notion only apply to people who demonstrate this status? Does it apply to someone who buys an expensive fountain pen, keeps it in their desk drawer, and uses it to write, but doesn't talk/boast about it? It seems a bit of a sweeping statement to claim that owning a pen is vain, and could use a bit more clarification/justification t…

I never claimed that 'owning a pen is vain'. I said that one can only understand its cultural significance through careful sociological reflection. That is a truism to me.

"If any such claim relies on ethnographic or sociological studies, then wouldn't it be appropriate to cite those when making such a claim?"

I think you might have wrong end of the stick. I have no idea if there are any studies on the cultural capital of pens. The point is a general methodological one - we can only understand the 'status' that any given commodity is supposed to possess by first investigating the particular ways in which it functions in a definite social group.

"So does this notion only apply to people who demonstrate this status?"

Everyone is always 'demonstrating status' all of the time so I hardly think this is enough to condemn someone.

But to get to the point: obviously buying a $4000 pen is a conspicuous symbol of status by which to differentiate yourself from other people. IMO it is utterly grotesque: in a world based on radical inequality where billions of people live miserable, indigent lives, buying a pen for that amount suggests that you care more about appearing to be rich that about helping anyone. It is a farcical, individualist act of petty self-congratulation.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#58

Post by rwmj » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

KC8ZKF wrote: post #6

I enjoy a good fountain pen. If you are interested in an inexpensive practical fountain pen, you should look into the Lamy Safari. It is easy to maintain, writes smoothly, and feels good in the hand. It is my every day pen. Quick drying "document" inks are also good for everyday use. They don't fade or smear.

I love my Japanese Sailor fountain pen, but for every day use you can't really beat the Lamy.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#59

Post by themodelplumber » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

KC8ZKF wrote: post #6

I enjoy a good fountain pen. If you are interested in an inexpensive practical fountain pen, you should look into the Lamy Safari. It is easy to maintain, writes smoothly, and feels good in the hand. It is my every day pen. Quick drying "document" inks are also good for everyday use. They don't fade or smear.

For real inexpensive, try a Jinhao x750. I have one with a Fine nib and with that single pen I can get every width represented in a set of Micron technical pens. Currently using a bottle of Parker Quink from my local Staples. Addictive hobby!

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#60

Post by JohnStrange » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:23 PM UTC

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #45

KC8ZKF wrote: post #6

I enjoy a good fountain pen. If you are interested in an inexpensive practical fountain pen, you should look into the Lamy Safari. It is easy to maintain, writes smoothly, and feels good in the hand. It is my every day pen. Quick drying "document" inks are also good for everyday use. They don't fade or smear.

Question for the Lamy and TWSBI users: Does it work as an "in-your-pocket" pen? In other words, can I use it on the go, or is it meant to be kept at a desk?

As an in-your-pocket pen I'd recommend a Kaweco Sport pen [1]. They are smaller than standard fountain pens and some of them come in metal with a cap that can be screwed on. I wouldn't recommend the tiny converter (aka refiller) for them, however, they are hard to use without getting ink on your hands. Cartridges are better.

This story caused me to re-activate mine and a few other fountain pens I haven't used in a while.

[1] https://www.kaweco-pen.com/en/pens/fountain-pens/454/kaweco-...