It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#111

Post by jabl » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 7:51 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #40

mirimir wrote: post #34

> The central issue in American politics is the economic security of the middle class and their sense of opportunity for their children. Maybe for Mr. Summers, it is. And maybe as well, for liberals generally. But there are at least a couple problems. First, many Americans are apparently convinced that some other issue is central in American politics. Maybe it's threats from foreigners. Or from Satan, or some proxy o…

The article is from a while ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were still true: 19% of Americans think they are in the top 1% and 20% more expect to be one day [1]. So a full 39% of Americans either suck at math or actually believe that by rewarding wealthy capitalists they are actually rewarding themselves! 1: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-hop...

I think these kinds of misconceptions people have about themselves are quite common, in fact. Like that the vast majority of people think they are above average drivers.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#112

Post by gozur88 » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 7:54 AM UTC

wsc981 wrote: post #71

danblick wrote: post #9

Software developers are already highly paid with lots of perks. Do they need unions?

I think that is a horrible argument. It always bothered me that my employers could ask a lot of money per hour to their clients and I would only receive a very small part, even though I did most of the work. So in the end I decided to become freelancer. I can ask much higher rates and now I feel I get a fair compensation for my work (perhaps 2x or 3x my previous wage). And apparantly my clients believe so as well.

>I think that is a horrible argument. It always bothered me that my employers could ask a lot of money per hour to their clients and I would only receive a very small part, even though I did most of the work.

Did you? Are you ignoring all the work that went into landing the contract? If your work was really the major effort the smart thing to do would be to strike out on your own.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#113

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:05 AM UTC

elmar wrote: post #95

burntrelish1273 wrote: post #28

Richard Wolff has also been evangelizing co-ops and worker-owned businesses for some time. http://www.rdwolff.com/faq_worker_coops_wdes https://youtu.be/urCy3UOGgx8

Anarcho-Syndicalism at Valve (2013) https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-wi... http://hbhblog.blogspot.pt/2013/03/valve-steam-anarcho-syndi... http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.htm...

For the record, Valve is a very different company today than it once was. It's hard to produce any reasonably backed-up insights into their modern culture.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#114

Post by theseus7 » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:05 AM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #93

Wage slavery is a real thing in America today. I'm in almost the 95th percentile of income in the US today (although I wasn't always so lucky), and, if I were to somehow lose my job tomorrow, my first priority would be to find a new one ASAP, because I wouldn't be able to pay rent after less than 6 months of unemployment. Most people are not so fortunate. Even the most well-off Americans only have about $164K saved i…

The solution is pretty straightforward. Replace all taxes on labor and earned income with a land value tax. This will increase disposable income of workers by directly decreasing taxes on wages, by lowering the cost of housing by disincentivizng speculative land investment, and by increasing the supply and margin of production of rent-free land, the later of which increases the bargaining power of workers per Ricardo's Law of Rent. The lack of private savings can also be addressed by creating a Citizen's Savings account for all citizen residents over the age of 21, into which a dividend is regularly deposited raised from natural resource rents.

The supply of land, and the degree to which land has been monopolized, is still the primary determining factor of wages even in a high-tech economy.

The price of rent for access to land in proximity to capital and dense concentrations of skilled workers of complementary skillsets determines how much savings one has to have before they can start a competing business or work for themselves, and the ease at which people can create a new business and go into competition with their previous employer determines the fairness at which equity is distributed in the average firm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_rent

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#115

Post by tajen » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:08 AM UTC

chrismealy wrote: post #24

danblick wrote: post #9

Software developers are already highly paid with lots of perks. Do they need unions?

Yes, not for themselves but for society. If you like the way Germany, The Netherlands, and the Nordics do things, you should know that these countries have very high levels of union membership, up to 80%. Their broad labor movements created the societies they have today. Unions in America never had that much strength and never accomplished as much.

It's not only membership levels, it's cleverness. In France unions are often explicitly anticapitalist. There's little you can do to work with them. Most people believe their pay could be doubled without harming the company, because there's a stash somewhere [1].

Whereas in Germany, unions seem to have a clever dialogue with employers. Probably most people have been educated to economics, in a pro-capitalist way?

[1] Ironically they're not so wrong: Because of our mandatory contributions, our compound tax rate is 63%.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#116

Post by elmar » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:14 AM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #113

elmar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anarcho-Syndicalism at Valve (2013) https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-wi... http://hbhblog.blogspot.pt/2013/03/valve-steam-anarcho-syndi... http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.htm...

For the record, Valve is a very different company today than it once was. It's hard to produce any reasonably backed-up insights into their modern culture.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#117

Post by kilotaras » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:15 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #94

colanderman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, those 20% aren't so deluded. In fact 12% of all Americans do enter the top 1% at least for a year. [1] (Granted it's not clear from the above link whether the poll question was worded to clarify this ambiguity.) [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-...

You don't "enter the top 1% at least for a year". To be part of the 1%, you at least have enough capital to live off interest indefinitely. Indeed, enough for your children to live off interest indefinitely.

It seems like you're talking about wealth and GP is talking about income.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#118

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:16 AM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #112

wsc981 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a horrible argument. It always bothered me that my employers could ask a lot of money per hour to their clients and I would only receive a very small part, even though I did most of the work. So in the end I decided to become freelancer. I can ask much higher rates and now I feel I get a fair compensation for my work (perhaps 2x or 3x my previous wage). And apparantly my clients believe so as well.

>I think that is a horrible argument. It always bothered me that my employers could ask a lot of money per hour to their clients and I would only receive a very small part, even though I did most of the work. Did you? Are you ignoring all the work that went into landing the contract? If your work was really the major effort the smart thing to do would be to strike out on your own.

>> So in the end I decided to become freelancer. I can ask much higher rates and now I feel I get a fair compensation for my work (perhaps 2x or 3x my previous wage).

I'm pretty sure that wasn't edited in in response to your comment, since it's quoted in another comment much older than yours is.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#119

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:21 AM UTC

elmar wrote: post #116

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, Valve is a very different company today than it once was. It's hard to produce any reasonably backed-up insights into their modern culture.

More recent articles (2017) Welcome to Flatland: Valve’s Unique Culture https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-... Half-life projects “ultimately just starve to death” in Valve’s company culture, says alleged insider https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/12/half-life-projects-ultimate...

But I don't think this is based on any new evidence of what their culture is like. The only source they mention is the (old) employee handbook.

Edit: the parent comment added the second link in an edit.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#120

Post by scythe » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 8:30 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #94

colanderman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, those 20% aren't so deluded. In fact 12% of all Americans do enter the top 1% at least for a year. [1] (Granted it's not clear from the above link whether the poll question was worded to clarify this ambiguity.) [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-...

You don't "enter the top 1% at least for a year". To be part of the 1%, you at least have enough capital to live off interest indefinitely. Indeed, enough for your children to live off interest indefinitely.

I think you mean "to be rich". To be in the top 1%, you, by definition, need only to have an income which is in the top 1% of the US income distribution. However, the lacuna between the income distribution and the power distribution is exactly what is misleading about the term "the 1%" when it is used to complain about the power of the wealthy in modern America.