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The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#181

Post by jules »

charlesdm wrote: post #80
jacquesm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality has a price. If you buy the cheapest tomatoes you get the lowest grade, if you're prepared to spend more you get better quality and more taste. The Germans are extremely interesting in this respect deriding the lowest quality Dutch vegetables with all kinds of name-calling ('waterbombs') but at the same time they keep buying them because they are cheap. If you want quality you will simply have to be prepared…

As a Belgian, I'd happily pay x4 to x5 the price of the average tomato you can buy in the supermarket here. But I can't. There's an 80% chance tomatoes are tasteless, and a 20% chance they're amazing. I want amazing tomatoes, every single time. :(

Buy this type of cherry tomato, they're nice and still relatively affordable: http://rooi.versuit.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/6/image/9...

They won't beat summer sun grown tomatoes in warmer climates, but they're available all year round.

A bit of sugar and a bit of acidity can boost the flavor of sub-par tomatoes, for example for a sauce.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#182

Post by Fnoord »

21 wrote: post #81
mverwijs wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: " This high-tech broiler house holds up to 150,000 birds, from hatching to harvesting" No 'decades old photo' either. I find it hard to believe someone loving live animals would put them in such a place.

Funny, looking at the associated picture tells me a different story. Look at how uncrowded the chicks are and how much free space to move they have, and compare with US where they are so packed together that they can't even turn in place. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/magazine/right...

There are two types of chickens: the ones grown for their meat, and the ones grown for their eggs (I'm not aware of the English terminology on either).

There have been campaigns for both types of chicken to improve their quality of life. Here in NL they were conducted by an NGO called Wakker Dier. There's the campaign against the 'plofkip' (huge chicks who are unable to move, and are force fed) so that grocery stores quit selling these. Then for the sale of eggs (itself harmless for chickens, if unfertilized eggs, and if chickens are treated without abuse) there's a star system ranging from 1 ('kooi') [1], 2 ('scharrelei') till 3 ('vrije uitloop'). Note that this system says nothing about their diet. Now, if you'd translate 2 and 3, you'd both end up with 'free range'. This Wikipedia article on free range [2] explains the EU has strict rules on that term, while the US does not. Its worth noting that due to campaigns of Wakker Dier eggs of type 1 are almost never sold anymore directly, but they are still being widely used within products! If not, they will mention the name of type 2 and 3 ('scharrel-ei' usually or more uncommon in the case of products 'vrije uitloop ei' otherwise).

Regarding the picture you linked if that is from NL, that might very well either be accurate due to fipronil scandal [3] (millions of chickens were killed due to that hence near empty cages), or otherwise a propaganda picture.

Its very important to be critical of farmers. They're treating thousands upon thousands of animals with various degrees of treatment (from loving/caring to downright abuse), as well as affecting our soil (as in, "the inhabitants of Earth's" which also makes sense since our soil is deeply connected with the rest of Earth's ecosystem as well as literally your neighbors's soil).

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Eisen_ko...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_eggs

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fipronil_eggs_contaminati...

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#183

Post by poooogles »

Boothroid wrote: post #171
jessaustin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much of the UK (presumably in the far north it wouldn't work well?) the way to get tasty tomatoes from mid- to late-summer would be to grow them oneself... Of course during the winter tasty fresh tomatoes are unavailable.

Indeed, I wonder how hard those complaining have tried to use local UK produce in season. Go to a restaurant that serves good food using local produce. I do this when I can afford it - I've had some fantastic food, comparable to anything elsewhere in Europe, and some UK fruit and veg is amongst the finest available - a couple of examples - British asparagus, and Yorkshire forced rhubarb - amongst the best available a…

Our winter vegetables are great as well. Leeks, Parsnips and Chard are all delicious.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#184

Post by barrkel »

calpaterson wrote: post #101
user5994461 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the tomatoes. Everything in the UK supermarket is quite bad. It's a cultural thing I suppose.

Where are you shopping? My experience is that UK supermarkets are normally higher quality (esp in fresh and refridgerated goods) than other countries. Often lower priced too. Supermarkets I've seen in other western countries (Italy, France, US, Finland) have invariably been pretty disappointing.

My experience is the opposite. I find a narrow selection of mediocre goods in the UK, and a much wider variety of high quality products in the continent. I can't get decent charcuterie without going to a deli, and half the French products I want to buy I have to go to Waitrose to get. Everything from beverages to cheese is really limited, typically only two brands in any given category, one of them usually the store brand.

I feel like the UK supermarket industry took The Paradox of Choice too seriously.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#185

Post by Boothroid »

poooogles wrote: post #183
Boothroid wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I wonder how hard those complaining have tried to use local UK produce in season. Go to a restaurant that serves good food using local produce. I do this when I can afford it - I've had some fantastic food, comparable to anything elsewhere in Europe, and some UK fruit and veg is amongst the finest available - a couple of examples - British asparagus, and Yorkshire forced rhubarb - amongst the best available a…

Our winter vegetables are great as well. Leeks, Parsnips and Chard are all delicious.

Oh god roasted parsnips! So good.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#186

Post by Udik »

jules wrote: post #181
charlesdm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Belgian, I'd happily pay x4 to x5 the price of the average tomato you can buy in the supermarket here. But I can't. There's an 80% chance tomatoes are tasteless, and a 20% chance they're amazing. I want amazing tomatoes, every single time. :(

Buy this type of cherry tomato, they're nice and still relatively affordable: http://rooi.versuit.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/6/image/9... They won't beat summer sun grown tomatoes in warmer climates, but they're available all year round. A bit of sugar and a bit of acidity can boost the flavor of sub-par tomatoes, for example for a sauce.

My favourites, I eat tons of them, from Albert Heijn (common Dutch supermarket). But they're better in the summer, if I'm not wrong.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#187

Post by barrkel »

Boothroid wrote: post #150
calpaterson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you shopping? My experience is that UK supermarkets are normally higher quality (esp in fresh and refridgerated goods) than other countries. Often lower priced too. Supermarkets I've seen in other western countries (Italy, France, US, Finland) have invariably been pretty disappointing.

Seconded. I don't think the parent comment to this has a strong basis in fact. The UK retail sector is one of the most competitive and dynamic in the world. I live in a small town and within 10 minutes' drive I have 3 large supermarkets open 7 days a week, stocking thousands of lines, with products ranging from budget to expensive. There are many smaller grocery shops also open 7 days a week. There is fantastic local…

It may be competitive, but the utility function isn't flavour or choice, it might be price or convenience or microwave dinners or something.

I speak as an Irishman who had a terrible time merely finding decent bread when I moved here (there is zero good soda bread in any British supermarket, I actually imported and froze mine for the first few years, then I went the bread maker route, until I made my peace and stopped eating bread at home), with a German partner for the past ten years who feels even more strongly about it than I do.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#188

Post by oh_sigh »

bostik wrote: post #140
spiderfarmer wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For animal rights activists there is no acceptable way to keep an animal. They want to regulate farms until it's economically impossible to produce meat (from living animals). I get that, but in my view nature is brutal and I have no problem killing an animal for a nice BBQ. Who is closer to nature?

For as long as there have been humans, they have made every effort possible to get away from nature. (I didn't come up with that joke. Gaiman and Pratchett did.)

Yes, because nature isn't your friend and is completely indifferent to your pain, suffering, and existence.

It's easy to fetishize and "love" nature while we sit in our climate controlled boxes looking at pictures of the 1% most scenic sites in the world.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#189

Post by user5994461 »

Boothroid wrote: post #150
calpaterson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you shopping? My experience is that UK supermarkets are normally higher quality (esp in fresh and refridgerated goods) than other countries. Often lower priced too. Supermarkets I've seen in other western countries (Italy, France, US, Finland) have invariably been pretty disappointing.

Seconded. I don't think the parent comment to this has a strong basis in fact. The UK retail sector is one of the most competitive and dynamic in the world. I live in a small town and within 10 minutes' drive I have 3 large supermarkets open 7 days a week, stocking thousands of lines, with products ranging from budget to expensive. There are many smaller grocery shops also open 7 days a week. There is fantastic local…

The prices are competitive and the stores are open 7 days a week, but the choice of products is quite bad and limited.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#190

Post by jstsch »

jorams wrote: post #104
ars wrote: post #54

You can do some amazing things with enough energy! And the Netherlands have a lot of extra energy because of all the geothermal energy they get. This is not [yet] replicable to other places though. Hopefully soon - unlimited energy would utterly change the world.

Do you have more information on this geothermal energy? Clicking around here[1] suggests the Netherlands doesn't actually use much geothermal energy at all. [1]: https://www.geothermal-energy.org/direct_uses/netherlands.ht...

It's deep geothermic energy, you gotta drill >500 meters to get to it. So indeed not as easy as for example Iceland.
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