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The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#141

Post by spiderfarmer »

adrianN wrote: post #126
cool_username wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you genuinely believe there is a citation out there relating to the treatment of chickens on this farm today vs. treatment of chickens on 10000 small household farms 100 years ago? It comes across as though you are demanding impossible standards of evidence here in order to cut off a side of an argument you don't agree with, and don't want to begin to consider? "Citation needed" is not a universa…

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a paper that compares traditional methods of raising chicken to modern ones. But for the purposes of Internet discussion I would be satisfied with a convincing anecdote.

Rats, foxes and dozens of other meat eating predators would thoroughly enjoy the 10.000 unprotected henhouses.

Bird flu has been a big problem historically because of the large amount chickens in urban areas, although it had different names then. It's still a problem now, but it's now only spread by migrating birds.

When it comes to diseases. Do you think 10.000 amateur farmers know all ins and outs of chicken diseases as well as the professional chicken farmer?

And do you think they are more exposed to diseases in a farm with hygenic corridors or in someones backyard?

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#142

Post by mcv »

farnsworth wrote: post #41

The Netherlands will soon be a massive exporter of flood-control knowledge and technology as well. It's like they've been practicing for global warming for the entire lifetime of their country.

I think we already are. The Dubai artificial islands are being made by Dutch companies. When Katrina hit New Orleans, Dutch experts were sent there. I assume the same thing will happen with Houston.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#143

Post by sambe »

mcv wrote: post #53
cirrus-clouds wrote: post #10

Here in the UK, tomatoes from the Netherlands are the most common sold in British supermarkets. Unfortunately, they are quite flavourless. The type of tomato (and price) makes no difference (organic, vine-ripened, salad). Most of them are usually semi-ripe. Even if you allow them to ripen at home for a few days, they are still quite tasteless. Presumably, Italy keeps its best tomato produce for themselves and I don't…

Netherland is quite famous for its ability to grow completely tasteless vegetables. After WW2, people didn't consider taste very important; only appearance, size, cost, and maybe nutritional value mattered, so lots of tasteless vegetables were bred. Eventually customers started revolting, and now there are plenty of very tasty tomatoes available. They're more expensive, though, and not everybody can afford them. To a…

I don't find it to be better or worse than any other Northern European countries. And I can't find good tomatoes at any price - the more expensive on-the-vine ones smell good initially but only taste slightly better.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#144

Post by mcv »

stingraycharles wrote: post #59
farnsworth wrote: post #41

The Netherlands will soon be a massive exporter of flood-control knowledge and technology as well. It's like they've been practicing for global warming for the entire lifetime of their country.

Well we "foolishly" decided to build half our country below sea level. We've seen this interest in the past in the afterwake of Katrina, and we've been exporting this knowledge for quite some time. Unfortunately, it's probably a difficult problem to solve on the massive scale the US needs.

Nothing foolish about it. This was once a backwater, and then people starting draining swamps, and then lakes, and slowly turned this into one of the most fertile spots on Earth, and prospered. It was a good decision. Even with the increasing threat of flooding, it's still one of the nicest places in the world to live.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#145

Post by cynicalreason »

polskibus wrote: post #52

The food from the Netherlands is tasteless compared to Spanish or Italian in all seasons of the year, in the summer, all produce in Europe beats it. High yields in a country that does not have record sunlight throughought entire year, can only be achieved by abusing chemicals in the process, faking natural conditions, etc. Low amount of natural sunlight can easily be tested using your taste buds. If their farmer swit…

I lived for 2 years in the UK - I didn't understand how they could eat that stuff ... it literally has no taste. Moved back home for 3 years and now I'm living in the Netherlands for the past year .. it tastes like nothing, the tomatoes, the cabbage, the carrots .. the parsley .. they all are so bland.

We found some actual farms around that we got some actually tasty stuff during season .. but the stuff in the supermarkets tastes like grass.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#146

Post by andreapaiola »

viewtransform wrote: post #91
andreapaiola wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And probably you don't know the best... have you ever try a "cuore di bue"?

These are amazing! I grew these in Santa Monica CA a couple of years ago and they came out the size of large mangoes with the best flavor I've tasted in a tomato. http://www.growitalian.com/tomato-cuor-di-bue-oxheart-106-24...

Yeah, the ideal tomato for salads and/or with mozzarella

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_cuore_di_bue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-j3ZxGnMC8

#foodporn

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#147

Post by sambe »

Pica_soO wrote: post #132
maxerickson wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with tomatoes is that if you pick them ripe they are fragile. So if they are picked ripe, it makes it more difficult to ship them. And then this gets exacerbated when the varieties are selected for shipping and shelf life rather than flavor.

The lack of taste is not a problem of when the fruit is shipped. Its a indicator for a lack of stress. The plant is not attacked by insects, fungi and deer. Thus it does not produce the aromatics we expect. Unfortunately, many people are okay with this and expect it. I honestly can not imagine Netherlands farmers and engineers unable to simulate that stress. So its a purely lack of customers knowing the difference.

Reference for this? Never heard of it before, and doesn't sound likely on the surface.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#148

Post by spiderfarmer »

kuschku wrote: post #125
spiderfarmer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are misquoting me. On purpose? Compare our farmers to the rest of the world. Study it. Please tell me in detail how they are not among the most intelligent, competent and sustainable.

Having the lowest standards on raising chickens in western Europe? Check. Far longer allowed caged chicken raising than even Germany? Check. No control at all over the raising process, leading to over a year of time before the fibronil scandal became public? Check. They’re good farmers, but they’re not any better than the industry in other parts of western Europe.

If Photoshop has a couple of bugs, does that mean Microsoft is better than Adobe when it comes to photo editing software?

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#149

Post by solatic »

madmax108 wrote: post #3

Coming in from a country (India) which even today has a large agricultural community which still uses ancient tools for farming (tractors are pretty much the most many get up to, with proper cold storage facilities, greenhouses etc practically a pipe dream), looking at countries improve their techniques in such a manner makes me wonder what it will take to move my country to similar scale. Is it simply technical, or…

Part of the problem in India is that land ownership is extremely fractured. You can't build infrastructure for high-output if you don't have rights to build the infrastructure. You can't achieve economies of scale if your property system is designed to prevent scaling. You can't ship price-competitive products to market if dozens of middlemen (and all their land) are all taking their cut before it ever reaches consumers.

There isn't an easy answer. Unifying property under a co-op system won't solve the problem because you can't have every decision deliberated by committee which is content to play politics as opportunity passes it by. People simply need to sell, and they simply need to accept that the land will be worth more after they sell it. People will simply have to surrender control, one way or another. People will simply have to adapt to a new economy. Creative destruction is the price and the engine of progress.

The alternative is the backwards system that exists today, and it is not sustainable, not in the face of foreign competition, not in the face of the people who suffer from starvation caused by mismanagement in poorer years, and not in the face of the persistent, rampant poverty that farmers keep themselves in as they cling to the control of what they know rather than the fear of uncertainty.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#150

Post by Boothroid »

calpaterson wrote: post #101
user5994461 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the tomatoes. Everything in the UK supermarket is quite bad. It's a cultural thing I suppose.

Where are you shopping? My experience is that UK supermarkets are normally higher quality (esp in fresh and refridgerated goods) than other countries. Often lower priced too. Supermarkets I've seen in other western countries (Italy, France, US, Finland) have invariably been pretty disappointing.

Seconded. I don't think the parent comment to this has a strong basis in fact. The UK retail sector is one of the most competitive and dynamic in the world. I live in a small town and within 10 minutes' drive I have 3 large supermarkets open 7 days a week, stocking thousands of lines, with products ranging from budget to expensive. There are many smaller grocery shops also open 7 days a week. There is fantastic local produce if you eat in season. For range, price and convenience few other countries are close to the UK as regards mass retail. I studied this in a uni course and also speak from personal experience of living abroad.
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