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WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

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Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#61

Post by iamd3vil »

coldtea wrote: post #56
wyager wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Privatize the gains, socialize the losses" is undeniably a lucrative business strategy, but it's not one I particularly want to celebrate. This doesn't describe anything that AirBnB or Uber are doing. Taxis were expensive and horrible because governments created artificial scarcity via taxi medallion systems. They were "socializing the gains", to build off your aphorism. Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventi…

> Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventing this ridiculous system, and we're all much better for it. Who are those all? Taxi drivers or the general public? I'd rather have professional, decently paid, taxi drivers instead of amateur hour weekend drivers making minimum wage at the expense of yet another working class job.

Actually in India, I am really grateful for Uber. Previously talking to an auto rikshaw or taxi is pretty painful. They are rude, not reliable, charge a lot if you don't know the city or area. Also atleast from my talking to lot of Uber/Ola drivers is that they are earning a lot compared to their previous taxi service. So to answer your question, both drivers and public.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#62

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

pjc50 wrote: post #48
ransom1538 wrote: post #19

I think i see a pattern: WhatsApp: circumvent cellphone texting charges Airbnb: circumvent hotel laws Uber: circumvent taxi laws Amazon: circumvent state taxes Facebook: circumvent people's anonymity online Google: circumvent copyrights (take people's content slap on ads)

Of those description, whatsapp is the one that's actually the classic "how capitalism is supposed to work": provide a comparable or better service for a lower price. Amazon's era of sales tax evasion is mostly over. And if anyone is monetising copyright infringement it's not Google (who are somewhat conscientious about this after some lawsuits) but Tumblr (literally made of copyright infringing photos)

You mean the Sears-Roebuck era of tax evasion.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#63

Post by mbesto »

wpietri wrote: post #35
mbesto wrote: post #3

It's super easy to focus on a single metric (user growth) when you have a seemingly unlimited amount of capital and have no immediate pressure to turn _any_ revenue/profit. This article does a massive disservice to those who are not as fortunate who will inevitably be lead into failure. Note, this should not discredit the more interesting and glorified aspects of WhatsApp (strong leadership, technical aptitude, tech…

Did you read the article? They're explicitly not focusing on user growth: "But while Facebook has long prided itself on the way its growth team has turned attracting new members into a science, Koum is equally proud of the fact that WhatsApp has not done so. Instead, all of its attention has gone into making the app as simple as possible to get started with—it doesn’t even require you to create a user name or passwor…

> Did you read the article?

I did.

> as simple as possible to get started with

How is that not applying a focus on "user growth"? Just because you're not "growth hacking" or "using a a growth team" doesn't mean you are not implementing a strategy of growth of a user base. Adding a paywall or an advertisement would actively thwart the "simplicity of getting started", and thus halt user growth. My point still stands - most businesses who didn't have the type of capital backing that WhatsApp has would be insolvent or have to actively cause friction in their sign-up process to remain solvent (and hence halt user growth).

> Especially when you compare it with things like Juicero, which rode a wave of hype into a $120m failure

No one was comparing it to Juicero...I have no idea how that's in any way relevant...

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#64

Post by chrisco255 »

coldtea wrote: post #56
wyager wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Privatize the gains, socialize the losses" is undeniably a lucrative business strategy, but it's not one I particularly want to celebrate. This doesn't describe anything that AirBnB or Uber are doing. Taxis were expensive and horrible because governments created artificial scarcity via taxi medallion systems. They were "socializing the gains", to build off your aphorism. Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventi…

> Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventing this ridiculous system, and we're all much better for it. Who are those all? Taxi drivers or the general public? I'd rather have professional, decently paid, taxi drivers instead of amateur hour weekend drivers making minimum wage at the expense of yet another working class job.

Yeah same in the US. Honestly there was an under supply of cabs. The cars themselves were all uniform and weren't very clean. Cabbie drivers weren't very well paid ever. It was often difficult to pay with a credit or debit card...Uber and Lyft put so much competitive pressure on the system that cabs are nicer now.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#65

Post by fwdpropaganda »

I think they're losing focus.

I've started seeing cracks in WhatsApp's UI:

- Some times when inserting a single emoji on a single line, in between pressing send and the message being sent, the keyboard flickers.

- There seems to be a mysterious space between the Euro symbol and the next character...? That space isn't displayed on the webapp.

- I had a third one that I forgot.

Also bad decisions:

- Logs shouldn't be backed-up to Google Drive.

- Bloat. "Status"? No one cares. Why does swiping left allows me to take pictures? I have a camera app that I like using.

- Sharing metadata with Facebook will be WhatsApp's undoing, mark my words.

Signal on the other hand is being developed by 1 guy and has 5M installs.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#66

Post by fwdpropaganda »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #41
ransom1538 wrote: post #19

I think i see a pattern: WhatsApp: circumvent cellphone texting charges Airbnb: circumvent hotel laws Uber: circumvent taxi laws Amazon: circumvent state taxes Facebook: circumvent people's anonymity online Google: circumvent copyrights (take people's content slap on ads)

Your list is preposterous. Even if you take all your other items at face value, you make it sound like "circumventing cellphone texting charges" is breaking the law or something, as if ridiculous texting charges are set up for the good of anyone besides big telcos.

It's not preposterous, it's exactly right. SMS text messages were a something like $15bn industry before whatsapp got between them and the customers, and that has value.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#67

Post by Mahn »

eecks wrote: post #57
njarboe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And sometimes you don't. Zuckerburg famously had the chance to sell out for billions quite a few times [1], and basically said, "I'm doing what I want to be doing. If I sold out I would just start another social network company and I already own the best/biggest one." [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/all-the-companies-that-ever-t... edit: Closer and better quote. Thiel's paraphrase of Zuckerburg, "I don't know what…

Did anyone offer him 19 billion?

Are you suggesting they never had a chance to sell for 19 billion? Because I'm pretty sure all Zuckerberg had to do was pick up the phone in 2009, or even earlier.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#68

Post by CharlesW »

wpietri wrote: post #35
mbesto wrote: post #3

It's super easy to focus on a single metric (user growth) when you have a seemingly unlimited amount of capital and have no immediate pressure to turn _any_ revenue/profit. This article does a massive disservice to those who are not as fortunate who will inevitably be lead into failure. Note, this should not discredit the more interesting and glorified aspects of WhatsApp (strong leadership, technical aptitude, tech…

Did you read the article? They're explicitly not focusing on user growth: "But while Facebook has long prided itself on the way its growth team has turned attracting new members into a science, Koum is equally proud of the fact that WhatsApp has not done so. Instead, all of its attention has gone into making the app as simple as possible to get started with—it doesn’t even require you to create a user name or passwor…

> Did you read the article? They're explicitly not* focusing on user growth:*

I also RTFA, and it's hard to understand how someone could think user growth wasn't the focus.

— "…all of its attention has gone into making the app as simple as possible to get started with…" [Hint: They did this to improve virality.]

— "All along, he adds, the company's goal has been 'getting every single smartphone user on our network and getting them to use WhatsApp.'"

Plus, they'd said as much elsewhere as well. From https://www.wired.com/2016/01/whatsapp-is-nearing-a-billion-...:

— "Continued growth, it turns out, was one of the main reasons Koum agreed to the Facebook acquisition. The deal allowed WhatsApp to concentrate on growth without worrying too much about revenue."

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#69

Post by helloindia »

fwdpropaganda wrote: post #65

I think they're losing focus. I've started seeing cracks in WhatsApp's UI: - Some times when inserting a single emoji on a single line, in between pressing send and the message being sent, the keyboard flickers. - There seems to be a mysterious space between the Euro symbol and the next character...? That space isn't displayed on the webapp. - I had a third one that I forgot. Also bad decisions: - Logs shouldn't be b…

And Stories, what was he thinking?

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#70

Post by gordon_freeman »

senatorobama wrote: post #14
numbsafari wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They lost something close to $138MM the year before Facebook purchased them. https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/dealbook/2014/10/28/faceboo...

I'm a philistine, can someone explain how they paid their engineers when they lost SO much money?

I think if I remember correctly one of their main cost was paying a service like twilio (or something like that) to verify phone numbers of users when they registered to use whatsapp. Anybody has an idea if they are still outsourcing that verification part to a third party or doing in-house at Facebook?
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