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To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

nytimes.com

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Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#71

Post by FLUX-YOU »

BeetleB wrote: post #63
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the outsourcing companies were providing opportunities on their own, their employees could afford classes, living expenses and work on skills to eventually work at Apple. Apple gets quality janitors and security guards while paying the outsourcing company more. The outsourcing companies are the actual ones running the race to the bottom. Stop that, and Apple will have to reconsider (at which point, we get to a…

>Apple gets quality janitors and security guards while paying the outsourcing company more. I suspect Apple will then go and find another contracting company.

All of them would have to obey minimum pay regulation. If Apple knowingly hires a company violating that law, then absolutely go after them. If loopholes come from that regulation, then that has to be fixed too.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#72

Post by tnzn »

scarface74 wrote: post #64
mathiasben wrote: post #36

The underlying cause of this whole issue is the changes in tax policy instated in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, previously income was taxed at higher rates unless deductions were utilized which forced those earnings back into the economy creating jobs funding research, etc.. As it's become easier to retain more earnings there's little incentive not to optimize an entire corporation solely with the purpose of generating…

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

Why would anyone need more than 400k a year for himself in the first place though ?

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#73

Post by throwawayjava »

scarface74 wrote: post #64
mathiasben wrote: post #36

The underlying cause of this whole issue is the changes in tax policy instated in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, previously income was taxed at higher rates unless deductions were utilized which forced those earnings back into the economy creating jobs funding research, etc.. As it's become easier to retain more earnings there's little incentive not to optimize an entire corporation solely with the purpose of generating…

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

In addition to the 10 percent cut, "or reinvested" is the answer.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#74

Post by lisper »

scarface74 wrote: post #64
mathiasben wrote: post #36

The underlying cause of this whole issue is the changes in tax policy instated in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, previously income was taxed at higher rates unless deductions were utilized which forced those earnings back into the economy creating jobs funding research, etc.. As it's become easier to retain more earnings there's little incentive not to optimize an entire corporation solely with the purpose of generating…

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

You get to keep 10%. Or you can give the money to charities.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#75

Post by mathiasben »

scarface74 wrote: post #64
mathiasben wrote: post #36

The underlying cause of this whole issue is the changes in tax policy instated in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, previously income was taxed at higher rates unless deductions were utilized which forced those earnings back into the economy creating jobs funding research, etc.. As it's become easier to retain more earnings there's little incentive not to optimize an entire corporation solely with the purpose of generating…

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

avoid the taxes by taking the deductions, invest in new jobs and businesses with the possibility if those investments pan out of making even more money.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#76

Post by lotsofpulp »

fatjokes wrote: post #35

It sounds like the real reason for inequality is that the pay for "janitorial work" has simply decreased. The article makes a point to say that the pay is the same, accounting for inflation, but it's disingenuous not to highlight total comp, which Ramos had significantly less of than Evans.

The reason for inequality is that people are not equal. The work they do produce is not equal in value. More people can do a janitor's job, and/or do without a janitor, so the value of a janitor's work is less. More supply, elastic demand, means lower price point.

Through technology, some people are able to produce much more than others, so inequality is inevitable unless there is a balancing force (aka taxation).

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#77

Post by mathiasben »

lisper wrote: post #74
scarface74 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

You get to keep 10%. Or you can give the money to charities.

not charities, more like angel investments

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#78

Post by layble »

tnzn wrote: post #72
scarface74 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

Why would anyone need more than 400k a year for himself in the first place though ?

$400k adjusted for 1954 dollars would be $3.6M.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#79

Post by notalawyer »

khitchdee wrote: post #44
anovikov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in both cases, it's just the market. There is a demand for engineers which is more than for janitors, and with more limited supply. Everything else is just moving money from one pocket into another, it doesn't have economic significance.

Agree. In a capitalist society, this is par for the course. If you try to build systems to remove this inequality, you have to move towards communism since you will then need far more complex control mechanisms.

Um we already have those, they're called _laws_, and strengthening them doesn't mean a slippery slide into communism (whether or not that itself would be a bad thing is another discussion entirely). But thank you for McCarthying this so quickly.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#80

Post by mathiasben »

mathiasben wrote: post #36

The underlying cause of this whole issue is the changes in tax policy instated in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, previously income was taxed at higher rates unless deductions were utilized which forced those earnings back into the economy creating jobs funding research, etc.. As it's become easier to retain more earnings there's little incentive not to optimize an entire corporation solely with the purpose of generating…

the $400k is in 1954 dollars, today's figure would be around 4mil a year
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