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China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#31

Post by ilaksh »

forapurpose wrote: post #13

I read someplace that political power is constant. If you withdraw, then the power doesn't go away - it remains for others to seize. Perhaps it's the law of conservation of political power. For example, it happened in Iraq when the U.S. eliminated the people holding power, Hussein and the Baathists, and didn't have realistic plans for anyone to seize it. Iran, Shiite religious authorities, and Sunni insurgents all ju…

The US is not withdrawing. The US did have a plan for Iraq and executed it. The plan was to take out the regime and establish a military presence and prevent a strong regime from taking the old one's place. A mess accomplishes that. The US is still surrounding Iran with operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US still operates (indirectly?) in Syria against Russia. When Gaddafi tried to circumvent the petrodollar his country was wiped out. The sanctions against North Korea continue.

The big problem for me is that all of these things have been predicted well in advance and explained in detail by the 'crazy conspiracy theorists'. One of the predictions is that North Korea is a strong candidate for initiating World War III.

The main thing I worry about now is if China really considers North Korea an ally when it comes down to it, if there is some missile launch at Japan, a US retaliation, and then China gets involved. It seems absolutely crazy but so are all of the other wars. News about China circumventing the US dollar is much more frightening for me than hearing about all of the latest North Korea threats. Because this gives China a reason to back North Korea if the US effectively blocks China's oil benchmark plans.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#32

Post by ilaksh »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #26

So far, between 1971 and now, any country attempting to get past the petro dollar has been stopped by revolution, war, etc. What pressure or leverage can the USA put on China? My view is: more pressure is wanted , than is available...

The only pressure unfortunately that I know of is the most massive, deadly, and technologically advanced military the world has ever seen. I worry that since supposedly North Korea is nominally an ally of China, all of these North Korea nuclear/atomic weapon headlines are aimed towards an eventual trigger for World War III. They will say its about an evil dictator and a bomb or something, but really it will be about the petro dollar and global power.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#33

Post by whytaka »

pcr0 wrote: post #30
whytaka wrote: post #20

I think this is the reason China and Russia have been hoarding gold and backing cryptocurrencies. They are waging an economic war against US hegemony by attacking their currency. It is strategically timed too considering the US just spent the last 10 years printing money and expanding the balance sheet by 350%.

That doesn't check out. Why would China try to push down the US dollar when the US is their largest export market? That would also damage all the effort they put in trying to devalue the yuan.

Good point.

Perhaps the Chinese feel secure their transition into a consumer economy is on good footing. I've noticed my China stocks go up 50% in the last month or two. Confidence is way up.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#34

Post by barry-cotter »

mahrain wrote: post #11

Last one to try to circumvent the petrodollar was Ghadaffi. It seems China now takes the opportunity of the current political climate to try it themselves. (Petrodollar principle is explained well by Adam Curtis' documentary "Bitter Lake")

Qaddafi's mistake was in giving up WMDs not trying to price oil in something other than dollars. Saddam is gone, Qaddafi is gone, Kim, Assad and Iran are still there. Never, ever give up WMDs.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#35

Post by pcnonpc »

China's shifting to domestic consumption and strong Yuan is better than weak Yuan. Strong currency will also reduce capital flight from the country and increase its financial powers to buy world resources such as mining rights and companies abroad.

They understand how the dollar status as reserve currency helps strengthen American power. Many Chinese leaders understand the power of finance. They have used it to develop export-oriented economy and they are now using it to expand their power abroad.

China is now confident it is strong enough and has resources and relationships to counter US pressure.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#36

Post by pcnonpc »

SCAQTony wrote: post #5

Note, the whole purpose is to game sanctions the US has on Russian trade and other hostile regimes. But how profitable will this be? "...Russia's 2013 nominal GDP was $2.1 trillion, and Italy's was $2.07 trillion, according to the World Bank. ... Italy's 2013 GDP per capita (per person) was $34,619, and Russia's was $14,612.Jul 27, 2014..." http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jul/... Sounds like C…

What does Italy have that China cannot produce itself? Brand name products, basic machines and chemicals which Italy exports are not important to their development.

Russia has oil, minerals and iron which China needs to grow.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#37

Post by barry-cotter »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #27
whytaka wrote: post #20

I think this is the reason China and Russia have been hoarding gold and backing cryptocurrencies. They are waging an economic war against US hegemony by attacking their currency. It is strategically timed too considering the US just spent the last 10 years printing money and expanding the balance sheet by 350%.

China and Russia are also big producers of gold. But if gold truly comes back, it will give a huge boost to Africa, which has most of the reserves.

That's true only of the well governed African states with inclusive rather than extractive institutions. Gabon's oil hasn't done much to boost the standard of living of anyone outside the Presidential circle though GDP has gone up a lot.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#38

Post by empath75 »

adventured wrote: post #9
igravious wrote: post #7

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

Meanwhile, back in reality, the US median income is among thh highest on earth, US disposable income is among the highest on earth, US economic productivity is among the highest on earth, US technology advancement is among the best on earth, US unemployment is low, US wages have been typically climbing twice as fast as in the EU, American companies dominate the planet (outside of China), and in the last ten years tha…

This too shall pass.

The us has been coasting on good will and trump is squandering it. Now that he world doesn't see the us as a reliable partner, we're going to see the rug pulled out from under us rather quickly. China right now looks like a safer bet if you're looking for an ally.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#39

Post by tomcam »

whytaka wrote: post #21
tomcam wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What empire? Who is the Viceroy of Okinawa or Stuttgart? When did we start collecting taxes from Djibouti or Kuwait?

The petrodollar is how the US collects their tributes.

A voluntary exchange of goods or services for money is not a tax or tribute.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#40

Post by tomcam »

nl wrote: post #23
tomcam wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What empire? Who is the Viceroy of Okinawa or Stuttgart? When did we start collecting taxes from Djibouti or Kuwait?

I'm not sure about Djibouti. Kuwait paid about $16B after the first Gulf War and continues to pay for US troops based there. It's unclear how much that is, but Japan (for example) pays $2B a year to keep US troops in Japan. That's independent of things like international trade being executed in US dollars, which is why the US can control World trade: at some point everything needs US dollars. That's why US sanctions…

I was asking about taxes. That is what empires require of their subjects.
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