Live data from Hacker News

China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

asia.nikkei.com

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#12

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

Meanwhile, back in reality, the US median income is among thh highest on earth, US disposable income is among the highest on earth, US economic productivity is among the highest on earth, US technology advancement is among the best on earth, US unemployment is low, US wages have been typically climbing twice as fast as in the EU, American companies dominate the planet (outside of China), and in the last ten years tha…

This is all true. I don't disagree with you.

But. (There's always a but.) I'm not disputing that the US isn't a great economic powerhouse. What I'm getting at is, at what cost.

If the middle-class gets gutted and relative and absolute poverty keeps increasing then we're not really creating a just society, are we? In one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest nation ever if we still haven't figured out how to protect the most vulnerable among us then we've a bit of a problem. As some have suggested, maybe basic income is a solution? But to others you may as well have suggested that that dude Stalin may have made a nice omelette even though he broke a few eggs.

And outside the US, what the untenable situation where two countries (neither of which are the US) have to trade oil in dollars. For just how long do you think that arrangement will last? It could be, and has been, argued that some part of the might of the US comes from having its currency as the world currency and part of that is dollar-denominated trade. Cease that and the landscape alters. China knows that. Others know that.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#13
I read someplace that political power is constant. If you withdraw, then the power doesn't go away - it remains for others to seize. Perhaps it's the law of conservation of political power.

For example, it happened in Iraq when the U.S. eliminated the people holding power, Hussein and the Baathists, and didn't have realistic plans for anyone to seize it. Iran, Shiite religious authorities, and Sunni insurgents all jumped for it. The mess still hasn't been resolved.

It's happening on a much larger, more significant scale globally as the U.S. withdraws. Others aren't sitting still; they are coming in and seizing the power for themselves. It is very hard won and the most valuable thing in the world; who would walk away from it?

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#14
post #5

Note, the whole purpose is to game sanctions the US has on Russian trade and other hostile regimes. But how profitable will this be? "...Russia's 2013 nominal GDP was $2.1 trillion, and Italy's was $2.07 trillion, according to the World Bank. ... Italy's 2013 GDP per capita (per person) was $34,619, and Russia's was $14,612.Jul 27, 2014..." http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jul/... Sounds like C…

'game', or sovereign states exercising their sovereignty?

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#15

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

What empire? Who is the Viceroy of Okinawa or Stuttgart? When did we start collecting taxes from Djibouti or Kuwait?

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#16

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

Meanwhile, back in reality, the US median income is among thh highest on earth, US disposable income is among the highest on earth, US economic productivity is among the highest on earth, US technology advancement is among the best on earth, US unemployment is low, US wages have been typically climbing twice as fast as in the EU, American companies dominate the planet (outside of China), and in the last ten years tha…

The big systematic problem the US is facing is that much of what you describe is heavily funded by the ability to print dollars to sustain the trade deficit - because the World needs dollars. In other words, the US is living above its means because the World is ready to give goods for paper (money).

That move from China is aimed at undermining this ability. I'm completely not rooting for the Chinese, but the risk is real. If they succeed, the US will need to cut internal consumption by 2.6%, which will hit heavily an already struggling middle class. Not a good prospect.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, back in reality, the US median income is among thh highest on earth, US disposable income is among the highest on earth, US economic productivity is among the highest on earth, US technology advancement is among the best on earth, US unemployment is low, US wages have been typically climbing twice as fast as in the EU, American companies dominate the planet (outside of China), and in the last ten years tha…

This is all true. I don't disagree with you. But. (There's always a but.) I'm not disputing that the US isn't a great economic powerhouse. What I'm getting at is, at what cost . If the middle-class gets gutted and relative and absolute poverty keeps increasing then we're not really creating a just society, are we? In one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest nation ever if we still haven't figured out how to prote…

China also knows that you get bombed/hacked/etc to oblivion for trying it.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#18

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

As soon as I posted the above comment I started getting down votes so let me go into detail to hopefully stave off any negativity in what I think is a very important topic. Sorry, I know its not the done thing to talk about down-voting here :) (1) Note that this article is _explicitly_ about changing the dollar-backed oil trading arrangements we have had up until now and even has the phrase “new world order” in the t…

What kind of imperialists do what we did for Japan, Europe, Vietnam etc. without, oh, I don't know, getting territory or reimbursements out of the deal? Please, igravious, feel free to conquer me and play those same devious imperial tricks on me!

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#19
Five banks of the BRICS Interbank Cooperation Mechanism (ICM) have agreed to establish local currency credit lines and develop cooperation on credit ratings in the run-up to the forthcoming BRICS summit in China.

So the entire East part of the world will trade with China

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#20
I think this is the reason China and Russia have been hoarding gold and backing cryptocurrencies. They are waging an economic war against US hegemony by attacking their currency.

It is strategically timed too considering the US just spent the last 10 years printing money and expanding the balance sheet by 350%.

Post reply on HN