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As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

nytimes.com

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Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#51

Post by Pxtl »

edoceo wrote: post #22

We have three vendors for $1 bikes in Seattle. Choose green, yellow or orange. Nearly zero difference. Now they are being abused (hung from poles, dumped in the lake, etc) What's going to become of these 1000s of bikes toward our long winter, all the casual sunny-day riders are gone.

We have a system here in Hamilton Ontario where the bikes require a credit card to access and they include a cellphone/GPS system built into the bike so every bike knows its current location. That seems to reduce the abuse.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#52

Post by Pxtl »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #34
edoceo wrote: post #22

We have three vendors for $1 bikes in Seattle. Choose green, yellow or orange. Nearly zero difference. Now they are being abused (hung from poles, dumped in the lake, etc) What's going to become of these 1000s of bikes toward our long winter, all the casual sunny-day riders are gone.

There was an article fairly recently on HN about how bike sharing is failing in San Francisco because it's so hilly. All the bikes would start at the top of hills and end up at the bottom and there was no system in place to relocate them back to the top.

Seems like a pricing issue. Tag the stations by elevation and make a price hike for trips that start at a high station and end at a low one, and vice versa. Does SF not have an organization manually rebalancing teh stations? Here in Hamilton you see pickups with trailers full of rental-bikes being redistributed.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#53

Post by megablast »

lostlogin wrote: post #44
adrianN wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not terribly hard for a fit male to maintain 40km/h for a while on a nice racing bike. But I think 25km/h is a more reasonable top speed. It's also the speed where electric bicycles stop supporting the driver, at least here in Germany.

To average 40 you'd have to live somewhere quite flat I suspect.

Or more likely downhill.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#54

Post by xvilka »

devmunchies wrote: post #49

This is a concept that you learn in an intro to economics class in college. People will abuse a free, limited resource. A sharing-based economy doesn't work.

It's not an economic issue, it's a human nature. Just most of the people lack morals, no matter what country. Sad, but true.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#55

Post by forapurpose »

Pxtl wrote: post #51
edoceo wrote: post #22

We have three vendors for $1 bikes in Seattle. Choose green, yellow or orange. Nearly zero difference. Now they are being abused (hung from poles, dumped in the lake, etc) What's going to become of these 1000s of bikes toward our long winter, all the casual sunny-day riders are gone.

We have a system here in Hamilton Ontario where the bikes require a credit card to access and they include a cellphone/GPS system built into the bike so every bike knows its current location. That seems to reduce the abuse.

> bikes require a credit card to access

Many people don't have credit cards (though my information on that is years old; perhaps it's changed?). Doesn't that policy limit access for the people who might need the bikes most?

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#56

Post by microtonal »

adrianN wrote: post #37
Luc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as novice bicyclists can have difficulty maintaining 25mph That's 40 km/h. Are you trolling or is that a typo? I've been bicycling nearly daily for >45 years and I've never gone that fast.

It's not terribly hard for a fit male to maintain 40km/h for a while on a nice racing bike. But I think 25km/h is a more reasonable top speed. It's also the speed where electric bicycles stop supporting the driver, at least here in Germany.

To add a data point:

I cycle to work daily (22km) and have cycled pretty much all my life since. Sustaining 40km/h for longer periods is unrealistic if 1.) your terrain is not completely flat; 2.) there is wind; 3.) you do not want to get to your destination soaked with sweat; 4.) you have to carry some luggage like a laptop; or 5.) you cannot use a touring bike because of the terrain.

I sometimes cycle with a GPS and have Pedelecs (limited to 25km/h for electrical support in Germany) as a reference point. The vast majority of cyclers that I encounter cycle less than 25km/h under normal conditions [1]. Probably somewhere between 20 and 25. If there is strong wind or uphill, it's definitely less than that.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#57

Post by stephengillie »

Luc wrote: post #35
stephengillie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many bicyclists are afraid to be on the road, and many drivers believe roads are for aggressive car/truck drivers only. There is some basis for this, as novice bicyclists can have difficulty maintaining 25mph for miles, and many drivers are eager to prove their engine is stronger than a pair of legs.

> as novice bicyclists can have difficulty maintaining 25mph That's 40 km/h. Are you trolling or is that a typo? I've been bicycling nearly daily for >45 years and I've never gone that fast.

I haven't owned a bicycle since I have been able to drive a car, so my estimation may be wildly inaccurate. I grew up in a distant suburban/rural area in the Seattle region, where the nearest stores are 15 minutes away at 45mph.

These are mostly 2-lane country roads, with 6 foot drainage ditches on the sides on the roads instead of sidewalks, and sometimes even large delivery semi trucks drive these. You'd have to be crazy to ride a bicycle on such a hostile road. I did so twice and my mother refused to let me bicycle to work, insisting I use my father's car.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#58

Post by microtonal »

john61 wrote: post #30

Vienna had this problem decades ago when the city donated a lot of gratis bikes without any registration / GPS whatsoever. Just take the bike and leave it anywhere. They replaced the system with a station based one with registration, and a small fee after 1 hour usage. This works well.

There was a gratis bicycle plan in Amsterdam in 1965 ('witte fietsenplan'):

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/apr/26/story-cities-...

Interestingly enough 'The free white bikes were quickly removed by the police, who were hostile to Provo’s anarchist initiatives. '

Also, apparently, they had a small-scale electric car-sharing system in 1974.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#59

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Pxtl wrote: post #52
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article fairly recently on HN about how bike sharing is failing in San Francisco because it's so hilly. All the bikes would start at the top of hills and end up at the bottom and there was no system in place to relocate them back to the top.

Seems like a pricing issue. Tag the stations by elevation and make a price hike for trips that start at a high station and end at a low one, and vice versa. Does SF not have an organization manually rebalancing teh stations? Here in Hamilton you see pickups with trailers full of rental-bikes being redistributed.

They could even offer negative pricing for bikes that are out of place.

Re: As Bike-Sharing Brings Out Bad Manners, China Asks, What’s Wrong with Us?

#60

Post by tonyedgecombe »

xvilka wrote: post #54
devmunchies wrote: post #49

This is a concept that you learn in an intro to economics class in college. People will abuse a free, limited resource. A sharing-based economy doesn't work.

It's not an economic issue, it's a human nature. Just most of the people lack morals, no matter what country. Sad, but true.

"Just most of the people lack morals"

Society wouldn't exist if that were the case, most problems are caused by a minority.

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