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$1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

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Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#41

Post by [deleted] »

basicplus2 wrote: post #30
sintaxi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it wouldn't. It would ruin the buying power of the dollar which is effectively the same as giving every working person a pay cut. Those who own companies and assets would be who benefits.

Your logic is flawed.. if it is taken from the richest 1% it is not creating money from nothing it is simply moving money from A to B, therefore still the same amount of money in the system therefore it does not devalue buying power. The rich might put the prices up to steal it back but that is another argument

[deleted]

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#42

Post by [deleted] »

mrep wrote: post #18
sintaxi wrote: post #7

Do people actually believe this universal basic income nonsense? If money isn't scarce but goods are the goods become proportionally more expensive. Inflation is a thing.

Sane UBI plans do not change the scarcity of money but use it as a way to re-distribute money from the rich (those with capital making all the money with robots and technology) to those that only have their labor to support themselves (which is getting inferior to technology by the day).

[deleted]

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#43

Post by TomMarius »

basicplus2 wrote: post #30
sintaxi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it wouldn't. It would ruin the buying power of the dollar which is effectively the same as giving every working person a pay cut. Those who own companies and assets would be who benefits.

Your logic is flawed.. if it is taken from the richest 1% it is not creating money from nothing it is simply moving money from A to B, therefore still the same amount of money in the system therefore it does not devalue buying power. The rich might put the prices up to steal it back but that is another argument

How can you "steal back" something that was stolen from you?

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#44

Post by bittercynic »

sintaxi wrote: post #28
bittercynic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if goods become more expensive, if you currently have $0/month, and transition to $1K/month, that is an improvement.

You unwittingly discovered how much value $1k/mo will have if it's freely given to everyone.

If you're implying that $1k/mo will have zero value, I think you're mistaken.

This would undoubtedly cause rents to rise, along with other things, but it will still be far less hopeless to have some money than none.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#45

Post by tonyedgecombe »

sintaxi wrote: post #7

Do people actually believe this universal basic income nonsense? If money isn't scarce but goods are the goods become proportionally more expensive. Inflation is a thing.

For anything with a constrained supply, most likely it would end up in the pockets of landlords.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#46

Post by BoiledCabbage »

delbel wrote: post #24
sintaxi wrote: post #7

Do people actually believe this universal basic income nonsense? If money isn't scarce but goods are the goods become proportionally more expensive. Inflation is a thing.

Yup, inflation is a thing. Alaskans get Dividend checks every year -- almost $2k. Right after they get their checks, the price of everything skyrockets, on top of already extremely high prices for everything up there. The best time to spend the check is to wait until next year right before the checks are sent out to increase your buying power. If UBI made sense, Alaska would be a utopia. Not seeing it..

Compare Alaska with dividend checks to the Alaska without. Do they make Alaska better or worse

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#47

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

uoaei wrote: post #34
nimos wrote: post #9

I think it is really dangerous to hand over an amount of money that lets people completely check out of contributing to society. Alone maybe that is a sketchy amount to live off of but with roommates in an inexpensive area without a car it seems very doable. If you look at the amount of entertainment you can get from a used cheap desktop computer and internet connection along with the low cost of at home production o…

Maybe it's just me, but >some sort of busywork that has some social benefit sounds like so much more of a trap and a hellhole than hanging out at home with the potential to produce the things you love. There will be some who simply don't contribute at all, but think of all the artists who could contribute to social good through culture enrichment who are stuck in the stereotypical barista/retail/waiter job who have n…

> ...think of all the artists who could contribute to social good through culture enrichment who are stuck in the stereotypical barista/retail/waiter job who have no time to contribute to their community outside of their two jobs.

Is there any evidence that there's an explosion of artistic and other innovation happening in any of the economically depressed areas of the US where a significant percentage of the public were/are already on public assistance? Has Appalachia or Detroit or similar places experienced an artistic renaissance? I certainly see no indications of any such thing happening.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#49

Post by _5ysi »

Mz wrote: post #48

It would not grow the economy. You grow the economy by creating more goods and services. When you inject money without adding goods and services, the result is inflation.

I agree it would cause inflation. What is not clear (and I probably won't believe any study claiming clarity) is what % of said inflation would be caused by economic growth vs monetary manipulation. There are lots of studies that show disbursing money to relatively poorer people results in more immediate demand for goods than the investments & spending of those it was taken from. Whether this is a net positive for the economy is unclear, but the GDP metric would likely record growth.

If the money for UBI is obtained through debt, then I 100% agree with you because then gov. is basically taking money from the working class through inflation and also giving it back to them with an awkward couple year delay + corruption leakage in the giving and taking cycle. Ironically this would probably increase wealth and power inequality in the long term.

Edit/PS:

What is worrisome about proposals like this is the delay in the giving-taking cycle. If party A enacted such a policy they would probably enjoy a big economic boom for the duration of their term and then 8 years later party B would suffer from a massive increase in inequality and possibly financial crises.

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