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$1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

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Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#21

Post by pitaj »

paulddraper wrote: post #17
pitaj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a libertarian. I think that the UBI could allow for economic growth based solely on the power it as to eliminate the welfare trap. However, this would only work as a replacement for all welfare, though. It would have to replace welfare, food stamps, social security, etc, with the exception of medicaid and medicare. I support UBI only as a replacement for existing (bad) welfare systems. I think UBI in conjunction…

Hello fellow libertarian. The problem is that very many welfare recipients get more than $1,000/month per adult. Disabled? Single mother with children? You'll easily get 2x that (including check, food stamps, subsidized housing). And no one is going to want to take away from the poor. $1,000/adult/month replacing welfare is an impossibility. We'd have to use much larger numbers.

If two checks are necessary, that's just more incentive for parents to stay together, or if that isn't possible, the child support can be taken out of the check. Also, with a guaranteed income, a family could much more easily move to a cheaper area with more opportunities.

People also don't tend to consider the harms that means-tested programs do to the poor. Subsidized housing is one huge per peeve of mine because it's essentially creating ghettos.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#22

Post by grwthckrmstr »

sintaxi wrote: post #10
basicplus2 wrote: post #8

It would work if you take it from the 1%

No it wouldn't. It would ruin the buying power of the dollar which is effectively the same as giving every working person a pay cut. Those who own companies and assets would be who benefits.

You mean the rich will benefit? :O

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#23

Post by gremlinsinc »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

Wait a minute, though: Every adult gets $1,000/month. That's $12,000/year. How many adults do we have? Well, the US population is 326,000,000. Median age is 37, so I'll guess that 3/4 of the population is "adult" (age >= 18). That means that paying this handout will cost $12,000/person * 244,500,000 people = $2.934 trillion. That's... not a net win.

How many make > 200k and will be paying 100% of that 1k back as a tax? maybe 30%? So you can cut that by 30%.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#24

Post by delbel »

sintaxi wrote: post #7

Do people actually believe this universal basic income nonsense? If money isn't scarce but goods are the goods become proportionally more expensive. Inflation is a thing.

Yup, inflation is a thing. Alaskans get Dividend checks every year -- almost $2k. Right after they get their checks, the price of everything skyrockets, on top of already extremely high prices for everything up there. The best time to spend the check is to wait until next year right before the checks are sent out to increase your buying power. If UBI made sense, Alaska would be a utopia. Not seeing it..

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#25

Post by paulddraper »

pitaj wrote: post #21
paulddraper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello fellow libertarian. The problem is that very many welfare recipients get more than $1,000/month per adult. Disabled? Single mother with children? You'll easily get 2x that (including check, food stamps, subsidized housing). And no one is going to want to take away from the poor. $1,000/adult/month replacing welfare is an impossibility. We'd have to use much larger numbers.

If two checks are necessary, that's just more incentive for parents to stay together, or if that isn't possible, the child support can be taken out of the check. Also, with a guaranteed income, a family could much more easily move to a cheaper area with more opportunities. People also don't tend to consider the harms that means-tested programs do to the poor. Subsidized housing is one huge per peeve of mine because i…

> People also don't tend to consider the harms that means-tested programs do to the poor.

True. Still, there will be many who are worse off with $1 UBI.

I agree with your views. But if UBI is ever created it has 0% chance of replacing welfare.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#26

Post by dilemma »

pitaj wrote: post #5
jchmbrln wrote: post #2

Halfway through: > These estimates are based on a universal basic income paid for by increasing the federal deficit. As part of the study, the researchers also calculated the effect to the economy of paying for the cash handouts by increasing taxes. In that case, there would be no net benefit to the economy, the report finds. > "When paying for the policy by increasing taxes on households rather than paying for the p…

I'm a libertarian. I think that the UBI could allow for economic growth based solely on the power it as to eliminate the welfare trap. However, this would only work as a replacement for all welfare, though. It would have to replace welfare, food stamps, social security, etc, with the exception of medicaid and medicare. I support UBI only as a replacement for existing (bad) welfare systems. I think UBI in conjunction…

UBI is the welfare trap par excellence.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#27

Post by sintaxi »

grwthckrmstr wrote: post #22
sintaxi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it wouldn't. It would ruin the buying power of the dollar which is effectively the same as giving every working person a pay cut. Those who own companies and assets would be who benefits.

You mean the rich will benefit? :O

Explain to me how universally devaluing the currency I pay you in doesn't help me? If my wealth is stored in land and owning market segments and you earn a salary which is entirely based on the value of a fiat currency. How do you get ahead by fiat currency being made freely available to everyone. Explain it to me.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#28

Post by sintaxi »

bittercynic wrote: post #11
sintaxi wrote: post #7

Do people actually believe this universal basic income nonsense? If money isn't scarce but goods are the goods become proportionally more expensive. Inflation is a thing.

Even if goods become more expensive, if you currently have $0/month, and transition to $1K/month, that is an improvement.

You unwittingly discovered how much value $1k/mo will have if it's freely given to everyone.

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#29

Post by [deleted] »

paulddraper wrote: post #17
pitaj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a libertarian. I think that the UBI could allow for economic growth based solely on the power it as to eliminate the welfare trap. However, this would only work as a replacement for all welfare, though. It would have to replace welfare, food stamps, social security, etc, with the exception of medicaid and medicare. I support UBI only as a replacement for existing (bad) welfare systems. I think UBI in conjunction…

Hello fellow libertarian. The problem is that very many welfare recipients get more than $1,000/month per adult. Disabled? Single mother with children? You'll easily get 2x that (including check, food stamps, subsidized housing). And no one is going to want to take away from the poor. $1,000/adult/month replacing welfare is an impossibility. We'd have to use much larger numbers.

[deleted]

Re: $1,000 per month cash handout would grow US economy by $2.5 trillion, study says

#30

Post by basicplus2 »

sintaxi wrote: post #10
basicplus2 wrote: post #8

It would work if you take it from the 1%

No it wouldn't. It would ruin the buying power of the dollar which is effectively the same as giving every working person a pay cut. Those who own companies and assets would be who benefits.

Your logic is flawed.. if it is taken from the richest 1% it is not creating money from nothing it is simply moving money from A to B, therefore still the same amount of money in the system therefore it does not devalue buying power.

The rich might put the prices up to steal it back but that is another argument

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