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US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

nature.com

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Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#71

Post by DFHippie »

hasenj wrote: post #64
icebraining wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not thinking strategically. The US is one of the biggest emitters of CO2, and coal plants are about 1/3 of that. If the study can convince the population to reduce their use, even if with a different argument, that's helpful for the whole planet.

You just admitted the would-be study actually has ulterior motives. That's not good.

Almost all research has ulterior motives in this sense, particularly government-funded research. You want to guide policy so you collect information on the impact of that policy, existing or proposed. The alternative is to make policy in the absence of data.

Research guided this way is problematic only if it amounts to cherry-picking of facts, studying only the benefits or costs to the exclusion of the other.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#72

Post by madaxe_again »

KirinDave wrote: post #19
koolba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue of reducing wasteful spending across the government, at all levels, is near and dear to many of us.

And as such these tiny tiny cuts are a good idea? It's very dangerous to call defunding of sciences and regulatory oversight to be "wasteful" spending. They are both inexpensive and tend to be valable for decades to come. Maybe Trump, his team, and the Republican majority in every branch of government could do something positive about entitlement spending? It'd be great to get back to a US where we actually spend non…

Oh, you know, that parable about the squirrels. One hoards acorns for winter but gets hit by a truck. The other one eats all of his acorns, becomes obese, and is worshipped by other squirrels for his acorn eating prowess, who bring him more acorns.

Or something.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#73

Post by lsaferite »

WalterBright wrote: post #65
tstactplsignore wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Can you show me a legitimate scientific project that the Obama administration shut down?

As I recall, one couldn't (and still can't) get funding for research into medicinal uses of drugs like marijuana and heroin. Politics always drives what gets government research funding and what doesn't. Politics defines what is "legitimate" and what isn't, and those shift over time.

> shut down

You're citing research that was never started.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#74

Post by givinguflac »

trapperkeeper74 wrote: post #60
icebraining wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not thinking strategically. The US is one of the biggest emitters of CO2, and coal plants are about 1/3 of that. If the study can convince the population to reduce their use, even if with a different argument, that's helpful for the whole planet.

James Cromwell was arrested for protesting a dirty and unnecessary coal power plant in NY, but I don't think it made a difference. I think academic research that's newsworthy has much more and different punch than direct action. Using the existing broadcasting platforms scales more that all the screaming and picketing in Times Square, grandmas with prayer stick beaten down, dogs dripping with human blood or girls arm…

The flaw in your logic is that you assume any important outcome of said study will be seen as valid by the people in power who can do something about the results of the study. Many high power people in the government actively try to present scientists as liars and frauds, and you think we should just let the data speak for itself? How's that working out so far?

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#75

Post by csomar »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #50
nroach wrote: post #46

The study's budget was only $1m. Seems like the readership of HN could easily pull that money together and donate the funding, if the researchers could accept it.

I'd be surprised if this "community" could gather money for anything remotely useful. Also: I'd like to see the outcome of a fundraising, and the demographics of the donators, to see how many pledge outside of CA, and outside of the USA. This would give me an impression about the extent of the Trump is Satan and the world is about to end mindset. (imho nothing changes, things proceed with trump as before. business as…

> I'd be surprised if this "community" could gather money for anything remotely useful.

You can't go right by starting an "attack" on a bunch of people of very diversified backgrounds and ideologies.

> Also: I'd like to see the outcome of a fundraising, and the demographics of the donators, to see how many pledge outside of CA, and outside of the USA. This would give me an impression about the extent of the Trump is Satan and the world is about to end mindset.

If you are not my ally then you are my enemy. I'm really sick of this ideology. There is a whole set of people interested in green tech that have exactly 0 opinion in politics let alone Donald Trump.

> Just to make it clear: I'd not give a single penny for it, I care for the health of US citizens only as much as they care for the health of citizens of other countries.

This is just plainly and unnecessarily aggressive. It's like the "non-existant" fund-raising is relying on your donation. No it isn't. Just like the rest of the 7 billion humans and hundred of millions of other companies and entities.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#76

Post by JudasGoat »

brownbat wrote: post #51

Outside/In interviewed some miners and families recently. It's phenomenal radio, actually talking to the people everyone else just talks about. I haven't been able to get it out of my mind. http://outsideinradio.org/shows/ep34 Note, I know this isn't 1:1, not about the communities surrounding mountaintop removal, but there are some good notes in it about modern changes to mining techniques all the same.

That really puts a face on greed's victims. Thank you.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#77

Post by chillwaves »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #50
nroach wrote: post #46

The study's budget was only $1m. Seems like the readership of HN could easily pull that money together and donate the funding, if the researchers could accept it.

I'd be surprised if this "community" could gather money for anything remotely useful. Also: I'd like to see the outcome of a fundraising, and the demographics of the donators, to see how many pledge outside of CA, and outside of the USA. This would give me an impression about the extent of the Trump is Satan and the world is about to end mindset. (imho nothing changes, things proceed with trump as before. business as…

> Trump is Satan and the world is about to end mindset.

I've never heard this angle, in fact it is his supporters who embrace ideologies that involve Satan, not the other way around.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#78

Post by chillwaves »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #63
PixelB wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hit the nail on the head, pure research is not a profitable activity. This is why we can't trust companies and corporations to research.. their motives are almost always profit driven. This only underlines the importance of government funded research, and the need to have a government in place who is willing to put the advancement of our society over their own personal gain (We don't have that right now..).

You're forgetting about the $1.9 trillion nonprofit sector, of which 15% is spent on health research, 12% on public + social benefit...[1] That seems to bely the need for a government that can fund research that 'puts the advancement of our society over their own personal gain.' [1] https://philanthropynewyork.org/sites/default/files/resource...

Non-profit does not mean the system is working outside of capitalism or people are not making money.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#79

Post by mud_dauber »

ap46 wrote: post #67

You don't need anymore research to know it is obviously dangerous. What we do need is leadership that doesn't bow down to cronies & supports stupid beliefs.

I lost an uncle to black lung. Coal mining as an industry needs to die. And I grew up in WV.

Re: US government halts study on health effects of coal mining

#80

Post by nine_k »

koolba wrote: post #68
KirinDave wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as such these tiny tiny cuts are a good idea? It's very dangerous to call defunding of sciences and regulatory oversight to be "wasteful" spending. They are both inexpensive and tend to be valable for decades to come. Maybe Trump, his team, and the Republican majority in every branch of government could do something positive about entitlement spending? It'd be great to get back to a US where we actually spend non…

There's nothing sacred about science that makes it untouchable or puts it above all other spending. It's talk like that which leads to bloated budgets that never get resolved because everything falls in that category to someone.

Likely science is not among top 10 greatest sinks of government funds, and the amount of waste in it is not atypically high. It's just a wrong target for financial optimization maybe.
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